Understanding someone is far different than condoning their actions.
Kiero Small in Baltimore....
- Thread starter Jonah1280
- Start date
Understanding someone is far different than condoning their actions.
What people fail to realize is that it is a select group of people who go around to places who have had controversial issues and start these riots. The facts are just that. These select group of people are coming to town and changing lives when people didn't want it, families didn't ask for it and all for their own personal agenda, which by the way gets a skewed view due to media presentation.
So Minnesota what is the answer to change "your people" or "ya'll"? If getting a job never crosses their minds how do we help change that. Seems to me as long as they are "your people", "my people", and "ya'll" we are going to have issues. Until we see each other as Americans we are going to have issues.
It is easy to point out problems. What we need are solutions.
It is easy to point out problems. What we need are solutions.
I completely understand this line of thinking but I also believe it is dangerous. We don't need to listen to kids. Those kids need to listen to people within the black community who would persuade them to have a higher standard on morals that lead to less children out of wedlock and fewer single parent homes. Persuade them that an education is more important than running the streets. Persuade them that using the system to gain the representation they desire works better than riots but only if they choose individuals who have the communities interest at heart and not the typical race narrative followed with lining their own pockets. Yes things need to be done to change the current standing of millions of black youth but it will only take hold IMO if it is born from the black community. Only if it is peaceful and inspire a new narrative about black youth. This is happening all across our country right now but not on the level needed and not in the publics eye. Fair or not that is the view. There is more governmental support of the underprivileged and disenfranchised than ever before. Can we see that it is helping?
The Systemic break in the moral base of today's youth can be directly related to the behaviors you listed. Weak or no family, weak or no education, weak or no moral compas, these all lead to weak or no self respect and in turn the crumbling of ones self pride furthering the feeling oF disenfranchisement.
Work hard, educate yourself, and be a good person. When did this thought process become a joke? When there is no one there to both teach and show the positive results of that action it will not be received positively.
Can't wait for my trip to Baltimore in early June...
I see everyone as individuals so I can't answer your question. The only thing I can come up with is vote conservative.
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Unlike Ferguson, these folks picked the right martyr to get behind. I don't hope for anyone to get hurt, but I do hope the message gets across.
As for the "epidemic" in Baltimore and all across the country? Quit rewarding fatherless homes:
Sources: National Fatherhood Initiative (U.S.A.), US Bureau of Census (U.S.A.), FBI (U.S.A.)
Father-deprivation is a more reliable predictor of criminal activity than race, environment or poverty.
Father-deprived children are:
72% of all teenage murderers.
60% of rapists.
70% of kids incarcerated.
twice as likely to quit school.
11 times more likely to be violent.
3 of 4 teen suicides.
80% of the adolescents in psychiatric hospitals.
90% of runaways
As for the "epidemic" in Baltimore and all across the country? Quit rewarding fatherless homes:
Sources: National Fatherhood Initiative (U.S.A.), US Bureau of Census (U.S.A.), FBI (U.S.A.)
Father-deprivation is a more reliable predictor of criminal activity than race, environment or poverty.
Father-deprived children are:
72% of all teenage murderers.
60% of rapists.
70% of kids incarcerated.
twice as likely to quit school.
11 times more likely to be violent.
3 of 4 teen suicides.
80% of the adolescents in psychiatric hospitals.
90% of runaways
I'm proud to say that I was raised in Arkansas and taught that you didn't treat a person differently because of their skin color. I can't pretend like I know what it's like to be a black person in America, and therefore I can't judge those people rioting in Baltimore. I have no idea what it's like to be them. On the other hand, I also think that the majority of people looting and robbing have no interest in changing things in America, they're doing it for personal gain and probably have no idea the stereotype they're perpetuating... too many of the folks protesting and rioting aren't doing it for justice or change.
There are a lot of bad cops out there, and I personally know of cops that are definitely racist. There needs to be major reform on how POs are hired and trained. Someone may know, but are cops not subjected to psychological testing before they're hired? I think this would be one way to weed out the narcissistic, power hungry cops as well as the ignorant racists.
Minnesota, I can appreciate your stance on the subject and understand why you are so passionate about it, but lumping all Arkansans in together is just unfair. I'm not naïve and realize that racism is still not hard to find in the south, but we aren't all racists just like we aren't all rednecks just like we aren't all thugs. Lumping groups of people together is dangerous and is a step backward to what we are trying to achieve.
futurehawgdad, that story is frustrating, sad, and makes me angry all at the same time. I've had to deal with similar situations, and sometimes the levels of ignorance I see blows my mind. And like your story, I've seen it from both sides. Racism is still alive and well today, however I do feel like my generation is more tolerant and accepting than the generation before me, and hopefully the generation after me will be even more so.
There are a lot of bad cops out there, and I personally know of cops that are definitely racist. There needs to be major reform on how POs are hired and trained. Someone may know, but are cops not subjected to psychological testing before they're hired? I think this would be one way to weed out the narcissistic, power hungry cops as well as the ignorant racists.
Minnesota, I can appreciate your stance on the subject and understand why you are so passionate about it, but lumping all Arkansans in together is just unfair. I'm not naïve and realize that racism is still not hard to find in the south, but we aren't all racists just like we aren't all rednecks just like we aren't all thugs. Lumping groups of people together is dangerous and is a step backward to what we are trying to achieve.
futurehawgdad, that story is frustrating, sad, and makes me angry all at the same time. I've had to deal with similar situations, and sometimes the levels of ignorance I see blows my mind. And like your story, I've seen it from both sides. Racism is still alive and well today, however I do feel like my generation is more tolerant and accepting than the generation before me, and hopefully the generation after me will be even more so.
My god. I love my home state but when I see a lot of ignorant comments that appear in this thread it makes me happy I got away from there. I hate to tell you guys but Arkansas is WAY behind the race curve. If your benchmark is Alabama or Mississippi then you're slightly better. If you're looking at Ferguson or Baltimore then yes, we're better. If you're looking at the rest of the country or the rest of the world then you'd realize how backwards our thinking really is. As more and more of these incidents are shown to the public the more people are in agreement with Minnesotahog. We white people can pretend that there isn't a problem but it doesn't make it true.
The violence in Ferguson or Baltimore is not justified but we have to admit that it stems from frustration that a large group of citizens feel like they have no hope and will receive no justice from the government and law enforcement. We don't have to agree with that point of view but if want to really address the problem we have to deal with it on that level. We want to put blame on one side or another instead of realizing that this is now a vicious cycle that has turned into a chicken and the egg situation. The side with less power (and less to lose) is always going to lash out until the side with more power and more to lose decides it is in their best interest to break the cycle and change the way it deals with these situations. This pattern has happened hundreds of times in history and will continue.
The violence in Ferguson or Baltimore is not justified but we have to admit that it stems from frustration that a large group of citizens feel like they have no hope and will receive no justice from the government and law enforcement. We don't have to agree with that point of view but if want to really address the problem we have to deal with it on that level. We want to put blame on one side or another instead of realizing that this is now a vicious cycle that has turned into a chicken and the egg situation. The side with less power (and less to lose) is always going to lash out until the side with more power and more to lose decides it is in their best interest to break the cycle and change the way it deals with these situations. This pattern has happened hundreds of times in history and will continue.
Nothing speaks more of protesting mistreatment than looting from your fellow city residents / business owners. Don't crap where you work or fish off the company pier yet burning your own town. Guess setting 144 cars on fire and 15 buildings doesn't get realized why people's insurance premiums go up and how money gets misspent.http://coed.com/2015/04/28/baltimore-shoe-store-sportsmart-looted-photos-video
Actually HogGotti, if you watched the movie you'd see that in this depiction of the actions of the Israelites was exactly what the rioters are doing.
I am white and me and brothers went to an all black public school in the Mississippi Delta in the late 70's and 80's. We were jumped on many times because they wanted to show us " how it felt to be beaten as a slave". This continued until we grew some size and then it stopped. We made a lot of great friends over the years there. We enjoyed the pride the students had in their school. Our environment was not the greatest but we all have succeeded in our personal lives or environment did not hinder us. I am a teacher in Mississippi and I love my job. I have taught at predominantly black schools and the change that I have noticed is that the pride in their schools have disappeared. In fact, it seems that the black culture is trying to separate themselves even further from the white society. They are walking around with their pants lowered showing off their underclothes, talking in slang, they have showed an overall disinterest in education, and it is dishearting to me when I think of all of the people that sacrificed so much so they can have a equal chance in society to succeed. Just to have it all thrown away. People that have nothing to lose look for reasons to get something for nothing. Looting is a way thieves can steal without the possibility of getting caught, burning buildings is away arsonist can burn without getting caught so they can fulfill some deep needed pleasure, and that is all because a riot is uncontrolled ciaos hidden behind by a meaningless cause. I tell my students constantly when things like this occur, is to look at the whole picture and ask yourself one simple question" If the victim was trying to use education to change his life, then what would be the chances of him getting killed?" In other word do not put yourself as a individual into to situation that your choices will become limited. Think about every choice before you make and if the end result could lead to a negative outcome then make a different choice. This young man at 25 should be graduating college and not putting his life in danger 18 times. The thrill of quick and easy is as addictive as any drug. Racism will never die because people can make choices on who they want to be apart of their lives and their community. This goes for white trash, thugs, and gangs. I live in a residential area that to about 50/50 as far as color is concerned and I communicate with my black neighbors on a daily basis.
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I agree with a lot of what you've posted, but does Arkansas have more racists or ignorant people than Texas, Louisiana, Mississippi, Alabama, Florida, Georgia, or any other "Southern" state? It's a Southern cultural thing, not an Arkansas thing. There are more racists, white and black, in the South. No doubt about it, imo. It's because of our history and our culture, it will take us longer to get away from it.
And I would be willing to bet that as far as racism in America goes compared to the rest of the world, we're actually going to be on the more tolerant end of that spectrum. Racism is rampant and growing in Europe. It's a huge problem in Asia. South Africa is still pretty racist on both sides. Doing business in Asia, I know the term "White Devil" is thrown around quite a bit. So compared to the rest of the world, I don't believe our thinking is that backwards. Comparing the South to other parts of the US I agree, but like I said it's not just an Arkansas thing.
Where'd you get away to, if you don't mind me asking?
Just because they both destroy buildings, doesn't make them one in the same. Outside of the actual action of rioting, the two are nothing alike.
But I'm really over this whole thing...I'm not trying to change anyone's opinions or views...so I will just go my own way and show myself the door.
This guy has the right idea, channeling his inner Rodney Dangerfield/Caddyshack (let's dance!)
http://mashable.com/2015/04/28/baltimore-protests-michael-jackson/?utm_cid=mash-com-fb-pete-link
http://mashable.com/2015/04/28/baltimore-protests-michael-jackson/?utm_cid=mash-com-fb-pete-link
I think your Ron Burgandy post is spot on.
A "select group of people" are going to Ferguson and Baltimore and doing this stuff? Did I read that right? I wont ever believe that man.
Since when did the arrested count of people as you claim represent the whole group thats actually causing the trouble? Maybe the arrested people are from different areas, sure. Are they the only ones stirring the crap? No way.
As usual, the best response comes from the individual(s) who actually know something about what is going on. Thank you for sharing hognashun and 'Sota. I am white, and I can admit, white people do not understand what it is to live black. To me it is an education issue. Our racial history is not taught in our public schools and unless you have a great college professor, it isn't in college either. So, MOST members of every day white America doesn't really know what went on during the 50's and 60's, just a glossed over version, and they have no clue as to what went on during the late 1800's, post Civil War and the early 1900's, during the lynching decades and the rise of the Klan afterward. So, white people basically have a poor foundation of understanding. Despite what you want to believe, and as much as White America denies and has forgotten about this history, by way of not talking about it or refusing to, there are many black people out there who are still alive that not only lived the Civil Rights Movement but also heard the stories from their parents and grandparents of the white man's justice during the decades of lynching, and how tickets were sold as if it were some festive sporting event. Hanging bridges, tarred and feathered and burned. Mutilated, disfigured and tortured. Very often, black men and women yanked out of their cells for this type of cruelty to be issued on them without trial, and hung in the white man's own version of vigilante justice. Many falsely accused, etc... And that doesn't even begin to explain the "every day" aspect of life in those times. So, don't act like all of this comes from nowhere just because that history didn't happen yesterday. Rioting is not the answer and we have come a very very long way, but with that type of history, I don't see how one white person can objectively say that there is no reason for any black person to think about injustice. 400 years of cruelty says it would be natural to think otherwise. Do we as white people expect that history to be forgotten all because a piece of paper was signed 50-60 years ago? That was the beginning, a start to repair all the damage done that came 80 years after the Civil War ended. Obviously, those scars are still healing today and with corruption lingering in our society and municipalities, we still have a very long way to go. Like you said, hognashun, you are a law abiding contributing member of our local community and a veteran who served this country and you still have to put up with what I call "everyday" racism. It doesn't come from everybody, but it's out there. To say it's over and that this isn't the 50' or 60's is just ignorant to the facts. Just because you treat people decently, does not make a kind and loving community of everyone around you. I appreciate that most do, but trust me, just as some say, "racism is over" and "it's a thing of the past", I can give three or four examples of things said around my workplace on a daily /weekly basis that proves you are dead wrong. Racism is ignorant. It is sickening. I assume everyone on here knows exactly what brought on all of this in Baltimore? It isn't just what happened to Freddie Grey. Baltimore paid out 5.7 million dollars to victims in the last 3 years alone, due to police brutality. People are tired of this crap. It isn't just about the "news" story of today, like Freddie Grey, it's about what goes on every day. Unfortunately, it is very real. So, before you come on here and make blank statements about rolling tanks out and live rounds to solve a situation, please educate yourself to the facts, not just the news story of the day as particular "news" stations portray them.
I would somewhat disagree with that statement. I think it seems more prevalent in the South because there is a bigger mix of races down here. I was in Iowa for work one time and was at a restaurant and was blown away by comments that people made about other races. That particular town i was in was 96% white.
I could definitely be wrong about that, I'm not an expert on the subject by any means. I just know that I see more racism here in Arkansas and in the south than I do on my travels out West, or to the East coast. Maybe it's a per capita thing and I just don't happen to see/interact with the racists in those places, or maybe it's a high white/black population % thing.
I've lived in the Bay Area for most of the past 15 years and also spent 3 years over in Singapore, Hong Kong and Seoul. I think we're making the same point. Arkansas is no worse than the rest of the South but that is like being the tallest midget. Arkansas has lots of great aspects to it and plenty of amazing people but a great many of these amazing people still have some backwards views on race. It will continue to hold our great state back. The South has this negative stereotype for a reason. We can either stick our head in the sand or we can embrace change and lift ourselves up. I'd rather see my state be an example of positive change for the South than merely reflect the same ignorant stereotypes that the rest of the country projects on us. I see a lot of views in this thread that seem mainstream in Arkansas (and the South in general) but are not consistent with how the majority of America sees these issues. Using the term savages or saying that a black guy who shares his negative experience with police is just being a victim and suggesting that he probably did something to deserve being arrested just backs up these stereotypes.
Lest anyone think these riots were an un orchestrated, impromptu event, there were social media messages referred to as #purge.
That is a reference to the 2013 movie The Purge with the theme that annually for one day for 12 hours law enforcement clears the streets and anything goes. it can be referenced on your cell phone. This event was well planned!
That is a reference to the 2013 movie The Purge with the theme that annually for one day for 12 hours law enforcement clears the streets and anything goes. it can be referenced on your cell phone. This event was well planned!
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You are certainly entilted to your opinion and I am not trying to sway you one way or the other. I am just stating a simple fact. Are there local people involved, of course, but the reason the majority of these locals are involved on a more major scale is due to the simple facts I stated. Research it for yourself and draw your own conclusion but don't shoot from the hip emotionally until you have researched the facts. They are out there in plain view.
For those who said the rioters shouldn't be called thugs the President of The United States of America disagrees with you. In fact he made it a point to say that "those people aren't protesters. They are criminals and thugs"
I give you the one singular group responsible for the plight of the African American community in Baltimore. And it is the Democrat dominated elected officials of the city since the 60s. There is no argument for hard facts! http://allenbwest.com/2015/04/the-dirty-little-secret-no-one-wants-to-admit-about-baltimore/
Political affiliation has zero to do with Baltimore's problems. All bigger cities have these sort of problems and not all of them are Democrat. Typically states that are more conservative have poorer, less educated people (i.e. The South).
So what exactly are those issues in Baltimore that people are crying out about? This is a 65% black city, with Democrat & black Elected officials across the board for 4 plus decades. What exactly can be changed if it hasnt been changed in Baltimore by now? The reality is that if ANY city were going to be one that had open communication to the African American community, that hired according to ability and not race, stood up for injustice, promoted and encouraged developmental growth in the black community it would be Baltimore right?
Doesn't the Democratic party portray themselves as the Champions of the poor? But in fact they are the Champions of perpetual enfranchisement, dependency on the welfare state, educational systems dumbed down to the lowest common denominator vs driving all kids to greater heights, and worse of all the supporter of the demoralization of an entire generation that values abortion above 2 parent family units.
When you look at what is crippling the inner city poor it is without a doubt everything the left has fought to provide or should we say strip away from the public.
So tell me, what has 4+ decades of Democratic leadership in Baltimore (and St Louis) with a 65% majority/minority population and 90% + majority/minority representation in all city wide elected officials done for this city? Why does the majority in Baltimore feel as if they are kept down by their own people and their own representation?
