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OT: Net Neutrality Upheld

Yes it sucks big time! This has some real "big brother" type consequences, nothing neutral about it. Scary stuff for a free country. Thanks Obama!
 
I guess I just don't agree that innovation would decline if this wasn't put in place like those who championed it have said.
 
The govt has basically figured out a way to regulate and tax the Internet and spun it as "net neutrality" so all the non informed will not realize this is another liberal agenda. Tons of negative consequences from this. Great PR by the libs here, if they would have called it regulate and tax it would have gotten pushback.
Posted from Rivals Mobile
 
I think it's a good thing. The monopoly these companies have is what hurts service and innovation, not preventing them from choosing who gets the best speed.
 
Originally posted by J.C. Rose:
The govt has basically figured out a way to regulate and tax the Internet and spun it as "net neutrality" so all the non informed will not realize this is another liberal agenda. Tons of negative consequences from this. Great PR by the libs here, if they would have called it regulate and tax it would have gotten pushback.
Posted from Rivals Mobile
Don't know where you get your news but that is incorrect. Completely! For example, I have directv. I also have comcast for internet. Whenever I download something on demand from directv right now, it takes a while because comcast is slowing it down. I also have netflix. Until Netflix agreed to pay Comcast extra money last year, my netflix movies would stop and buffer a lot. When Netflix agreed to pay them more it stopped. I pay comcast for a service and it is not their right to slow my connection when I am downloading from a competitor. That is what this is about. Period.
 
I work in the technology industry and I can assure you innovation is happening everyday. Companies are transforming and in that transformation is innovation. Maybe the government has a different definition of "innovation".

I just cant think of an example where the government has inserted itself into an industry and it was a good thing and done at no cost to the tax payer. Talk to any small business owner, over regulation is a PIA for them. That stifles innovation IMO.
 
I'm on the fence on whether this will eventually be good or bad. This was basically a battle between 3 big corporations. I don't feel that ISPs should have the power to refuse access to sites or slow bandwidth whenever they please. However, I have a feeling that internet and cable bills will be going up even more in the future.
 
Originally posted by J.C. Rose:
The govt has basically figured out a way to regulate and tax the Internet and spun it as "net neutrality" so all the non informed will not realize this is another liberal agenda. Tons of negative consequences from this. Great PR by the libs here, if they would have called it regulate and tax it would have gotten pushback.
Posted from Rivals Mobile
Regulation isn't always a bad thing. Fees will likely go up, but not to a terrible degree. It sets up a system, via the FCC, where complaints about price gouging and poor service and be directed. In most cities, you have 1-2 choices for an interent provider. Taking steps to keep these companies accountable is a good thing. The internet has boomed and thrived b\c companies agreed to not limit access and leave it as a free space. There's nothing wrong with making a law to ensure that it stays that way. If you want an example of how service providers could abuse the former gentlemen's agreement, look at the recent negotiations b\w comcast and Netflix. Comcast cut off the siphon to Netflix to force them to the table on Comcast's terms.
 
I was not aware folks here had read that big book of regulations they just voted on.

Whereas people like me hate and fear growing , centralized power in Washington. ....some are happy for it.

I don't like or trust who is there now but am more concerned with the unknown future politicians.

Power in fewer hands
 
It's a good thing and will prevent gouging and BS like what Comcast has been doing. The tin foil hats who can't read the bill will pass on the conspiracy theories that are fed to them and run with hit. But we should be thankful for this. I had problems with throttling on Comcast with Netflix and Amazon Prime before I moved to a new condo with the HOA's service. Now that won't be a problem for anyone.
 
First of all I don't like it when our government enacts secretive regulations. There are 300+ pages of rules and regulations that we haven't been allowed to see. Secondly it is supposedly going to make all internet access equal (translate that to lowest common denominator), but again we have not been allowed to see the rules. This means we will pay more for less service. For example I pay extra for the premium internet package to get the higher speed access. As I understand it, this may lead to the end of that. It has been called "Obamacare for the internet".
I have provided a link to a great Forbes article about it that can explain it much better than I can.

I'll give you a scenario that I think puts it in perspective.

Here is a snipit of the transcript from the Limbaugh show I heard while ridding with a friend (I don't listen to Limbaugh ).

"Now, if we're regulated the way they want to regulate the Internet, and if the signal to your TV set arrived the same way it does to your computer, Obama, or whatever, could look at the fact that MSNBC has got no viewers and see that Fox's got all of them and CNN's got some, and that's not fair. "This isn't neutral; this isn't equal," and they would take action to make sure that probably Fox would lose some viewers by having access denied.

So that MSNBC, under the guise of that point of view: Having an equal right to exposure. But here's the thing. Folks, I'm not making this up. When net neutrality first came along, when I was first warned about it by a government official during the Bush administration about this, I was told that the people dreaming of this are actually dreaming of controlling content, political content, and making sure that one political point of view does not have more exposure than another.

Meaning if there's 50 conservative sites and 10 liberal sites, the 50 conservative sites are gonna be punished. Access to them will be limited. 'Cause it's not fair. That's what the original warning I received about net neutrality was. All this stuff you're hearing about limiting your content provider and prices and Netflix, all that's just hullabaloo to get you interested in it to get you supporting it, because they think they've made you believe they're gonna fix your grievance. "

This is another power grab by our government to control the flock IMO.

Net neutrality is a bad deal
 
Originally posted by athunt:
I work in the technology industry and I can assure you innovation is happening everyday. Companies are transforming and in that transformation is innovation. Maybe the government has a different definition of "innovation".

I just cant think of an example where the government has inserted itself into an industry and it was a good thing and done at no cost to the tax payer. Talk to any small business owner, over regulation is a PIA for them. That stifles innovation IMO.
Government's job isn't to help business flourish, it's to prevent the damage of business excesses. The EPA, our labor laws, net neutrality, Glass-Stegall Act, etc help keep a level playing field to allow for innovation and for new ideas and companies to have a fighting chance. Too much regulation is just as bad as no regulation at all.
 
Originally posted by B0b L0blaw:
Originally posted by J.C. Rose:
The govt has basically figured out a way to regulate and tax the Internet and spun it as "net neutrality" so all the non informed will not realize this is another liberal agenda. Tons of negative consequences from this. Great PR by the libs here, if they would have called it regulate and tax it would have gotten pushback.
Posted from Rivals Mobile
Regulation isn't always a bad thing. Fees will likely go up, but not to a terrible degree. It sets up a system, via the FCC, where complaints about price gouging and poor service and be directed. In most cities, you have 1-2 choices for an interent provider. Taking steps to keep these companies accountable is a good thing. The internet has boomed and thrived b\c companies agreed to not limit access and leave it as a free space. There's nothing wrong with making a law to ensure that it stays that way. If you want an example of how service providers could abuse the former gentlemen's agreement, look at the recent negotiations b\w comcast and Netflix. Comcast cut off the siphon to Netflix to force them to the table on Comcast's terms.
yes, so let's trust government bureaucrats to make sure everyone plays fairly instead of letting the free market play out. it's just a key fundamental difference in how we see the world. i will always lean to the side of free market, less government interference. even programs that start out as noble in the government, become bastardized over time and end up as typical government regulation and bureaucracy.
 
Originally posted by B0b L0blaw:

Originally posted by athunt:
I work in the technology industry and I can assure you innovation is happening everyday. Companies are transforming and in that transformation is innovation. Maybe the government has a different definition of "innovation".

I just cant think of an example where the government has inserted itself into an industry and it was a good thing and done at no cost to the tax payer. Talk to any small business owner, over regulation is a PIA for them. That stifles innovation IMO.
Government's job isn't to help business flourish, it's to prevent the damage of business excesses. The EPA, our labor laws, net neutrality, Glass-Stegall Act, etc help keep a level playing field to allow for innovation and for new ideas and companies to have a fighting chance. Too much regulation is just as bad as no regulation at all.
I guess we just have fundamentally different views of the role our government. capitalism vs socialism if you will
 
When was the last time the government took laws off the books? John Stossel did a great piece on how everyone breaks a "law" everyday because there are so many of them. I have become more of a libertarian as I get older. The government just keeps expanding into our lives more and more everyday. I'm a grown man and I don't need a nanny. We are losing our freedom in bigger and bigger chunks.
 
Originally posted by athunt:
Originally posted by B0b L0blaw:

Originally posted by athunt:
I work in the technology industry and I can assure you innovation is happening everyday. Companies are transforming and in that transformation is innovation. Maybe the government has a different definition of "innovation".

I just cant think of an example where the government has inserted itself into an industry and it was a good thing and done at no cost to the tax payer. Talk to any small business owner, over regulation is a PIA for them. That stifles innovation IMO.
Government's job isn't to help business flourish, it's to prevent the damage of business excesses. The EPA, our labor laws, net neutrality, Glass-Stegall Act, etc help keep a level playing field to allow for innovation and for new ideas and companies to have a fighting chance. Too much regulation is just as bad as no regulation at all.
I guess we just have fundamentally different views of the role our government. capitalism vs socialism if you will
We do and that's fine. Often times the middle ground b\w our opposing views (aka compromise) leads to the best result. I know socialism is viewed in a bad light by many. We have socialistic aspects to our government that have help millions. It's all about to what extent we do things. Moderation is the key IMO, it's the excesses on either end of the political spectrum that lead to trouble.
 
My biggest concer is they refused to share it he document before it was voted on and refused to testify before Congress. When government refuses to be transparent I just do not see how it is a good thing. I try not to be a fear of government person as I work for the government but things like this really concern me. I am just afraid this is an introduction to infringement on a free internet. I hope I am wrong.
 
Like other government programs I'm sure it'll be a booming success.

They only get involved when it's something they have no control over. I'm sure they're only withholding pages of the law because it's too great for us to comprehend.
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What are we thanking God for and does He deserve our thanks......did He cause whatever we are thanking Him for? :)
 
I'm sad that this turned into a left-right thing. Looking at the issue there is really no reason that this should have devolved into a partisan dispute. I don't know about the 300 pages of rules and regulations, but just looking at the heart of the issue it is hard to see net neutrality as anything but a good thing.

All net neutrality means is preventing internet providers from engaging in unfair practices. Under the new rules companies like Comcast, Time Warner, Cox, Verizon, etc. can't offer "fast lane" internet to companies that can afford it and push those who can't into "slow lanes." This is a great thing for customers because it means that you can go to any website on the internet and not have your connection be slowed because the owners of the website aren't paying the telecommunications companies fees to get into the fast lane.

There were already examples of internet service providers abusing their position. Verizon was slowing down their customers access to Netflix. This is in part believed to have been because Verizon was running a joint venture with Netflix competitor Redbox to provide a streaming service. Comcast owns NBC (meaning they own MSNBC which makes Hog Alumni's scenario much more likely to happen in a world without net neutrality than one with net neutrality) and Hulu who also creating a conflict of interest in their dealings with Netflix. There are just too many conflicts of interests as these telecomms have started to get into providing content of their own to not put in place measures to make sure that the ISPs provide equal access.

-There is now new government program being created.
-This is nothing like Obamacare.
-This is about being anti-monopoly and fair. Something political ideologies from left wing progressives to libertarians agree on.
 
I'm curious how Internet being considered a public utility affects those on government assistance. Can they now have the government foot the bill?
Posted from Rivals Mobile
 
Originally posted by hogtoad:


All net neutrality means is preventing internet providers from engaging in unfair practices.- Wrong, it does much more than that and not much is positive!

Under the new rules companies like Comcast, Time Warner, Cox, Verizon, etc. can't offer "fast lane" internet to anyone that can afford it and push everyone into "slow lanes."

-There is now new government program being created. -That is pretty much exactly what is happening.
-This is nothing like Obamacare. -It is socialism for the internet, so it kinda is just like Obamacare.
 
Originally posted by J.C. Rose:
The govt has basically figured out a way to regulate and tax the Internet and spun it as "net neutrality" so all the non informed will not realize this is another liberal agenda. Tons of negative consequences from this. Great PR by the libs here, if they would have called it regulate and tax it would have gotten pushback.
Posted from Rivals Mobile
Nothing has changed...The internet is exactly that way it was yesterday. Since you jabbed libs... You righties kill me with reading comprehension...They only changed terms to allow action by an overseeing board...they didnt change a thing except put what had been always happening (that you were equal to Netflix) down on paper and made enforcable regulations to insure it stays that way. Please show me where the government tax form line is you filled out to be charged for making the internet equal for all parties participating.
 
Originally posted by Cruiserhog:

Originally posted by J.C. Rose:
The govt has basically figured out a way to regulate and tax the Internet and spun it as "net neutrality" so all the non informed will not realize this is another liberal agenda. Tons of negative consequences from this. Great PR by the libs here, if they would have called it regulate and tax it would have gotten pushback.

Posted from Rivals Mobile
Nothing has changed...The internet is exactly that way it was yesterday. Since you jabbed libs... You righties kill me with reading comprehension...They only changed terms to allow action by an overseeing board...they didnt change a thing except put what had been always happening (that you were equal to Netflix) down on paper and made enforcable regulations to insure it stays that way. Please show me where the government tax form line is you filled out to be charged for making the internet equal for all parties participating.
and the government should be telling a company how to run its business because why?
 
Each side sees in it what they want it to be........when neither knows it all.

Nobody here has a dependable source :)
 
Originally posted by Cruiserhog:
Originally posted by J.C. Rose:
The govt has basically figured out a way to regulate and tax the Internet and spun it as "net neutrality" so all the non informed will not realize this is another liberal agenda. Tons of negative consequences from this. Great PR by the libs here, if they would have called it regulate and tax it would have gotten pushback.
Posted from Rivals Mobile
Nothing has changed...The internet is exactly that way it was yesterday. Since you jabbed libs... You righties kill me with reading comprehension...They only changed terms to allow action by an overseeing board...they didnt change a thing except put what had been always happening (that you were equal to Netflix) down on paper and made enforcable regulations to insure it stays that way. Please show me where the government tax form line is you filled out to be charged for making the internet equal for all parties participating.
oh, ok, nothing has changed? That's the big lie. That's what it starts as anyway. So they are basically reclassifying the internet from ISP's to utilities. Are you familiar with the regulation over utilities? Are you familiar with the taxes on utilities. Hold on, let me talk in terms you are familiar with. Fees. That's how they are disguising it. Everything is the same, no new taxes, yada yada. That's how the Internet Tax Freedom Act is written - no new taxes. But it doesn't include fees. Which is how the government collects additional revenue through utilities. Now those fees are unknown at this point, and you guys that love government regulation will argue there will not be any new fees. But now the FCC has a whole lot of power, and even if they are not implementing fees yet, you are completely naive to believe it's not coming. This is just the red-herring that will lead to an end result that none of us will be happy with. But who do you believe here? A bill that was intentionally kept non-transparent?
 
Originally posted by B0b L0blaw:
Originally posted by athunt:
I work in the technology industry and I can assure you innovation is happening everyday. Companies are transforming and in that transformation is innovation. Maybe the government has a different definition of "innovation".

I just cant think of an example where the government has inserted itself into an industry and it was a good thing and done at no cost to the tax payer. Talk to any small business owner, over regulation is a PIA for them. That stifles innovation IMO.
Government's job isn't to help business flourish, it's to prevent the damage of business excesses. The EPA, our labor laws, net neutrality, Glass-Stegall Act, etc help keep a level playing field to allow for innovation and for new ideas and companies to have a fighting chance. Too much regulation is just as bad as no regulation at all.
That's YOUR idea of what government should be. MY idea is that government is FOR the people to make our lives better...and helping businesses flourish is part of that equation (so they can hire more people...and pay them more).

All in all...in MY world, I want the government to stay out of the way and be a silent partner in the success of individuals' lives.
 
Originally posted by athunt:
I work in the technology industry and I can assure you innovation is happening everyday. Companies are transforming and in that transformation is innovation. Maybe the government has a different definition of "innovation".

I just cant think of an example where the government has inserted itself into an industry and it was a good thing and done at no cost to the tax payer. Talk to any small business owner, over regulation is a PIA for them. That stifles innovation IMO.
BAM!!! Regulation NEVER increases innovation.

Competition causes innovation,. Regulation always results in less competition.
 
Think about what you know about how the government works. Pick one...
Private schools or public schools?
Private pools or public pools?
Private restrooms or public restrooms?
Private housing or public housing?
Those of you who support this, understand one thing...the internet as we have it now, is as free as it gets. What could possibly come from government regulations?
You are absolutely insane, if you cannot see the bigger picture. And let me tell you, the bigger picture has jack to do with helping the little guy save money.
 
Originally posted by ohlordy:
Each side sees in it what they want it to be........when neither knows it all.

Nobody here has a dependable source :)
One very dependable source is History , we have 6 years and a little over a month of it.

Pretty soon someone that has worked hard all their life and saved up and purchased a 2015 Porsche will have to sell it so the loser across the river (without a job) driving a beat up POS with different coloured doors and plastic on windows that were smashed in can be EQUAL.

Sounds fair to me, bring on more of this government intervention
sick0027.r191677.gif
.
 
Think Rivals when get some 'fees' down the line? Will they just eat them if they do?

Funny that today I was teaching about FDR and his 'government' fixes to end the Depression and how they ended up prolonging the Depression.

People like Big government when they think it will force others to do what THEY think is right.

I am always suspicious of people that claim we live in a democracy and that the majority should win......unless they don't like what won and go find a judge to overrule the majority.
 
This is NOT a good thing. I'd rather be pissed about a few companies trying to monopolize the net...which ain't exactly good...rather than have our stinkin government take over and start regulating it. It IS most assuredly another step in government intrusion into our lives. Liberals will likely not see this until it's too late...if then. Conservatives know what's happening and what's at stake. The socialist far-left will start telling us what we can and can't watch and what we can and can't print or share on the net....our political, social and religious views will be scrutinized...and government agencies will be taking note of each of us and what we say or do. It's another encroachment on our freedoms and this can't be denied....at least not by anyone with legitimate common sense.
 
Originally posted by athunt:
Originally posted by Cruiserhog:

Originally posted by J.C. Rose:
The govt has basically figured out a way to regulate and tax the Internet and spun it as "net neutrality" so all the non informed will not realize this is another liberal agenda. Tons of negative consequences from this. Great PR by the libs here, if they would have called it regulate and tax it would have gotten pushback.

Posted from Rivals Mobile
Nothing has changed...The internet is exactly that way it was yesterday. Since you jabbed libs... You righties kill me with reading comprehension...They only changed terms to allow action by an overseeing board...they didnt change a thing except put what had been always happening (that you were equal to Netflix) down on paper and made enforcable regulations to insure it stays that way. Please show me where the government tax form line is you filled out to be charged for making the internet equal for all parties participating.
and the government should be telling a company how to run its business because why?
The answer is consumer protection. That is why places can't charge you 100 percent interest just because you are desperate. Same reason some call dealer that sells you a lemon can be held accountable. Same reason why you don't get food poisoning every time you go to the grocery store and they cut corners to sell you bad meat. Same reason you can swim in our rivers and lakes and not get sick from people pouring oil in them. I guess all of that is government overreach?
 
Originally posted by treestandhog:
This is NOT a good thing. I'd rather be pissed about a few companies trying to monopolize the net...which ain't exactly good...rather than have our stinkin government take over and start regulating it. It IS most assuredly another step in government intrusion into our lives. Liberals will likely not see this until it's too late...if then. Conservatives know what's happening and what's at stake. The socialist far-left will start telling us what we can and can't watch and what we can and can't print or share on the net....our political, social and religious views will be scrutinized...and government agencies will be taking note of each of us and what we say or do. It's another encroachment on our freedoms and this can't be denied....at least not by anyone with legitimate common sense.
THe funny thing is that the governement invented the internet and all you conspiracy theorist think that they are trying to take over what they already built. LOL. This is not a right wing vs. left wing thing. This is about DC lobbyist for the big 3 who don't want to open competition. The government doesn't tax the internet. This is about the ISP's. The service providers who will not be required to give me my Netflix in real time and not throttle my directv. Otherwise I would have to beholden to comcast to decide how much netflix I can watch. That is what is unAmerican.
 
Originally posted by Hog Alumni:

Originally posted by hogtoad:


All net neutrality means is preventing internet providers from engaging in unfair practices.- Wrong, it does much more than that and not much is positive!

Under the new rules companies like Comcast, Time Warner, Cox, Verizon, etc. can't offer "fast lane" internet to anyone that can afford it and push everyone into "slow lanes."

-There is now new government program being created. -That is pretty much exactly what is happening.
-This is nothing like Obamacare. -It is socialism for the internet, so it kinda is just like Obamacare.
There is no new program being created. All it is an adjustment of how things are regulated right now, internet is just bumped into a different category. Nothing new was created. There will be no large spending or creation of new offices to oversee this adjustment. So not like Obamacare.

The "lanes" were never about improving speed of the internet for anyone. It was about slowing down the internet when on sites that didn't pay.

What are some of these not so positive things that net neutrality does? I'd like to hear what your specific holdups are.
 
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