Its not very often that a civil discussion with greatly differing views occurss on this board. Hate killed the thread about not having it here. Sad and yet in reality completely believable given today's culture. Attack others and their poor behavior by using the exact poor behavior you accuse them of. The irony of our times is astounding. I enjoyed the discussion with the many of you who engaged in what was probably the most real discussion any of us have or will have on the topic. I wish our whole nation would have a similar discussion but that would be all but impossible anymore as proven here.
Pleased and yet deeply disapointed
- Thread starter BOSSHOGFREE
- Start date
No, I completely understand that. Just disapointed that a thread entirely dedicated to the exclusion of hate was derailed by that very thing.
You know ump, I understand the rules, and I even understand the need for them. I know it's a fine line the mods have to navigate between keeping the customers happy and letting things get out of hand. There has to be lines lest we turn into woo pig or hogville. OTOH, do we want to be simply another version of the G rated and ultra politically correct Scout site? We used to be a reasonably good compromise between the two extremes where OT and highly opinionated threads were allowed as long as they didn't get too out of hand. This site became hands down my favorite b/c the mods seemed to grasp that we are more than simply sports junkies and this place is more than just info gathering. Lately, that hasn't been the case and removing/moving threads with a fairly quick trigger is getting far too common. The worst is(and not directed at you BTW) a guy or two with "mod" attached to their handle have taken to joining these debates too and it always seems that when their side starts losing ground, the thread disappears and is suddenly considered out of bounds. I would hate to think that anybody with authority would use it to stifle what they don't agree with, but it sure has looked that way lately.
This board has a life of it's own. It is more than just an info board, it is a community. There are folks on here of many ages, many walks of life, many different histories, and of course, many different views. Though I have never met anybody(that I know of) on this board, there are some on here I have truly grown to like a lot. There are also a handful or so that I can't stand(and that I know can't stand me), and many, many others that I can't remember from thread to thread whether I usually agree with or not. This board is kind of a microcosm of a real community in that respect. The fact that in the past this board has been able to exist and thrive by not going too far in either direction has made it the best out there IMO. I sincerely hope that doesn't change but recently it appears to be shifting.
This board has a life of it's own. It is more than just an info board, it is a community. There are folks on here of many ages, many walks of life, many different histories, and of course, many different views. Though I have never met anybody(that I know of) on this board, there are some on here I have truly grown to like a lot. There are also a handful or so that I can't stand(and that I know can't stand me), and many, many others that I can't remember from thread to thread whether I usually agree with or not. This board is kind of a microcosm of a real community in that respect. The fact that in the past this board has been able to exist and thrive by not going too far in either direction has made it the best out there IMO. I sincerely hope that doesn't change but recently it appears to be shifting.
I didn't see the thread in question, but I think Ump makes a point that a lot of us have missed concerning several threads:
they are absolutely still open & available for us to continue the discussion . . . they've just been moved to the section designed for such topics.
To me, that's a fair compromise that allows us to still have those "OT and highly opinionated threads" without cluttering up the Edge & pissing people off. My only suggestion would be (if possible) lock the original thread & include a link to the Grim Bottom thread where folks could continue the discussion. That way, we could all easily see the thread wasn't deleted & could continue to read/discuss if we wanted.
Just a friendly suggestion.
they are absolutely still open & available for us to continue the discussion . . . they've just been moved to the section designed for such topics.
To me, that's a fair compromise that allows us to still have those "OT and highly opinionated threads" without cluttering up the Edge & pissing people off. My only suggestion would be (if possible) lock the original thread & include a link to the Grim Bottom thread where folks could continue the discussion. That way, we could all easily see the thread wasn't deleted & could continue to read/discuss if we wanted.
Just a friendly suggestion.
Goes both ways. Leaving people to live and let live is as much about not forcing them to embrace your thinking/lifestyle as it is standing up to your rights. Forcing folks who just want to be left alone to pick sides is not living and let living. I'll stop now lest this thread get deleted.
7777, nobody is forcing you to do anything. You don't have to watch the news or ESPN.
Posted from Rivals Mobile
Posted from Rivals Mobile
I do have a quick trigger........Danny posted the other day that some of these debates are better suited for the Grim Bottom because of the subject matter and because quality posts get derailed with dissention that becomes hateful, counterproductive, spiteful, and personal.
I love spirited repartee, lively debate, and honest evaluations and opinions. But far too many posters have left this board
because they can't stomach the hatefulness that seeps its way into far too many threads.
The lack of respect of fellow posters and their polar opinions is the main reason Trey loses posters, IMO. I don't have
facts to base that on, but what I see posted on other boards by former Edge posters.
This board should function as a "microcosm of a real(Razorback) community", but each community has its set of mores and values that set it apart from other 'communities'. There has to be a modicum of respect for the others here, even when dosed with humor and/or sarcasm.
There needs to be more of a 'agree to disagree' mentality instead of 'you must be one stupid POS for believing/stating/opinionating that statement or post'. No mod believes in censoring opposing discourse, but
by and large it has to be civil enough to fit 'community bylaws'
I'll not speak to how the other mods feel, because I'm sure we don't all see it with the same sunglasses, and this
represents part of how I feel about The Edge. I love the banter, debate, and passion of our posters, but for me,
I think when we take each other to task, we need to remember more often the Golden Rule.
my 2 cents
Do you know what I do in the bedroom? Of course you don't. That's what minding my own business looks like. Been around gay folks my whole adult life and never been mean or disrespectful to any of them. There is a huge difference between gay folks and the gay rights movement. Lumping the two together is like assuming every black person is just like Jessie Jackson or every Christian is a like those nut jobs that went around protesting military funerals. Stereotyping for a cause is still stereotyping.
Huh? What does that have to do with anything I said? I just stated nobody is forcing you to do anything.
Posted from Rivals Mobile
Posted from Rivals Mobile
Appreciate your response Ump. And I grasp it is a hard line to walk. I am a member of another board that is a shell of what it once was and the main reason imo is the inherent obsession they developed to not allow controversy in fear of offending anybody. Sports lovers are competitive and opinionated by nature. That often leads to heated debates. Stifle enough of those debates and the very spirit of the board dies. I've seen it elsewhere. There is more than one way to lose members. As I said, it is a fine line.
No, nobody can force me to do anything, but they can tell me repeatedly what I should believe, what I should embrace, what I should accept as right, and label me as a hater/redneck/Christian zealot if I don't get in line. They can smother me with political correctness and stifle my rights to see things as I choose. What is the difference?
I don't know what I missed and don't really care......anymore. Joined the board for Hog sports info. Don't give a rip about the opinions of posters on matters of whatever. To each his own. There is a downward spiral here, despite the best efforts of D/T or the other mods. I'm a small fish who doesn't need empathy from others. WPS and Go Hogs!
This post was edited on 5/14 1:33 PM by TNHOG66
Just to be clear Im not disappointed that the thread was moved just that a really good conversation with clear discussion free from rhetoric got derailed. It was fun while it lasted and I hope we can do more of that no matter the topic. Thats my only point here really.
You would first have to explain IF we all evolved from single cell organisims/bacteria where the DNA code that is necessary for every cell to be created came from. How did a genetic code that according to Bill Gates is vastly more complex than any code man has or possibly ever will write be..... magically..... generated from a planet previously void of life or any intelligence let alone an intelligence capapble of creating a DNA strand code and then forming the protiens together to create said organisim.
When you break things down it still comes to the chicken or the egg. How during the crushing gravitational pressure pre big band where all matter known and unkown in our infinant universe was collected in one single point could any living article survive? It could not. And how during the unthinkable heat produced from the big bang could any living particle survie temperatures that quite honestly cannot be measured? It could not.
Life cannot be created from non living properties without...... intelligent intervention. Fight as you will but you will never find an answer to any of the questions above without breaking the laws that scientists themselves are bound to. Science will never do anything but ultimately generate more questions about our origin and most in time realize there is only one answer. It all came from somewhere. Everything natural has a begining and an end. Then where did the first particle come from, the first spect of space dust prior to the first of thousands of big bangs if you believe it to be the case. Where did that speck come from? The answer is truly unnatural
This post was edited on 5/14 3:18 PM by BOSSHOGFREE
yup....same thing every year........but the malaise over the last couple of years dampens the spirits of
many posters....figure spirits will quicken somewhat as fall practice begins, but dadgum, I would surely
love to see 'em bolstered after the trip to the Plains.
More broadly, there isn't anything wrong with believing these outcomes were ordained by a higher power, that is no reason to doubt the scientific discoveries of the processes involved.
Even if it's Choas theory and evolution, to your point, it only becomes incompatible with religion to the degree one (if they are religious, which I am) forces a literal rather than allegorical interpretation of religious text. That's a human decision. Forcing this incompatibility isn't defending the infallibility of God, its defending the infallibility of your (or anyone's) understanding of his work.
Even if it's Choas theory and evolution, to your point, it only becomes incompatible with religion to the degree one (if they are religious, which I am) forces a literal rather than allegorical interpretation of religious text. That's a human decision. Forcing this incompatibility isn't defending the infallibility of God, its defending the infallibility of your (or anyone's) understanding of his work.
Via Univ of Calif.
By studying the basic biochemistry shared by many organisms, we can begin to piece together how biochemical systems evolved near the root of the tree of life. However, up until the early 1980s, biologists were stumped by a "chicken and egg" problem: in all modern organisms, nucleic acids (DNA and RNA) are necessary to build proteins, and proteins are necessary to build nucleic acids - so which came first, the nucleic acid or the protein? This problem was solved when a new property of RNA was discovered: some kinds of RNA can catalyze chemical reactions ? and that means that RNA can both store genetic information and cause the chemical reactions necessary to copy itself. This breakthrough solved the chicken and egg problem: nucleic acids (and specifically, RNA) came first ? and later on, life switched to DNA-based inheritance.
By studying the basic biochemistry shared by many organisms, we can begin to piece together how biochemical systems evolved near the root of the tree of life. However, up until the early 1980s, biologists were stumped by a "chicken and egg" problem: in all modern organisms, nucleic acids (DNA and RNA) are necessary to build proteins, and proteins are necessary to build nucleic acids - so which came first, the nucleic acid or the protein? This problem was solved when a new property of RNA was discovered: some kinds of RNA can catalyze chemical reactions ? and that means that RNA can both store genetic information and cause the chemical reactions necessary to copy itself. This breakthrough solved the chicken and egg problem: nucleic acids (and specifically, RNA) came first ? and later on, life switched to DNA-based inheritance.
And yet it took intelligent beings in a labratory to create this phenomenon and not seen taken place in natural settings. BTW I also believe in a Creative Intelligent Designer not just an Intelligent one. A God that gives free will of man would also be so confident in his creation as to allow free will in all natural things. Just a personal belief and obviously not taught in Christianity.
Thats a mischaracterization. They were recreating the conditions on earth at the time to simulate the process behind the creation of RNA. Your simulating what was a natural setting.
Which at the time was....
Via Smithsonian
Earth was able to support life only after the planet had cooled enough for a rocky crust to solidify. Once that happened, water vapor from volcanoes condensed in the atmosphere, fell as rain, and collected on the Earth's surface. Besides water vapor, volcanoes also produced gases rich in the basic ingredients of life: carbon, hydrogen, oxygen, and nitrogen. Toxic gases such as ammonia and methane were common. At this point, Earth's early atmosphere consisted entirely of these volcanic gases, and there was no free oxygen. In the primordial "soup" of the early seas, organic molecules concentrated, formed more complex molecules, and became simple cells.
This post was edited on 5/14 4:39 PM by jhskiier
Which at the time was....
Via Smithsonian
Earth was able to support life only after the planet had cooled enough for a rocky crust to solidify. Once that happened, water vapor from volcanoes condensed in the atmosphere, fell as rain, and collected on the Earth's surface. Besides water vapor, volcanoes also produced gases rich in the basic ingredients of life: carbon, hydrogen, oxygen, and nitrogen. Toxic gases such as ammonia and methane were common. At this point, Earth's early atmosphere consisted entirely of these volcanic gases, and there was no free oxygen. In the primordial "soup" of the early seas, organic molecules concentrated, formed more complex molecules, and became simple cells.
This post was edited on 5/14 4:39 PM by jhskiier
Here is the statistical breakdown of that occuring naturally. If you read it all it will chang your perseption of time, space, and our world IMO. The probability is over 10 to the 270th power more less likely than the scientific statistic of ZERO probability.
We really are the only ones here
This guy gets it. I don't think most people have a problem what others do in the privacy of their own lives. But I think it is ridiculous that this guy had 30 minutes spent covering him that had nothing to do with football. It was the NFL draft wasn't it? How many kids got skipped over being talked about because they spent so much time on one kid? I know Kiero Small and Zack Hocker did not get talked about, nor did Chris Smith from what I remember, plus all the kids from other schools. It was just as big a day in their lives as it was Sam's.
I am happy for Sam and I hope he has a great career. I could care less if he is straight or gay. I watched the draft to watch football players being drafted, not 2 guys kissing 10 times on television. I would have felt the same way if it had been a guy and a girl kissing over and over again and they were not covering the draft. It was about kids getting drafted into the league.
Watered down if you dont want to read the link
This means that there is less than 1 chance in 1 million trillion trillion trillion trillion trillion trillion trillion trillion trillion trillion trillion trillion trillion trillion trillion trillion trillion trillion trillion trillion trillion trillion trillion exists that even one planet like earth could ever exist and support life as earth supports it if the only mechanisms available are natural mechanisms. Now remember how statisticians define what is known as "statistical zero":
1/1050?= Statistical Zero
This means that there is less than 1 chance in 1 million trillion trillion trillion trillion trillion trillion trillion trillion trillion trillion trillion trillion trillion trillion trillion trillion trillion trillion trillion trillion trillion trillion trillion exists that even one planet like earth could ever exist and support life as earth supports it if the only mechanisms available are natural mechanisms. Now remember how statisticians define what is known as "statistical zero":
1/1050?= Statistical Zero
I assume that also includes that attention whore that came out of the closet once a year ago and didn't get enough attention so he called the New York Times to come out again so he could get his 15 minutes of fame. Seriously you are correct some people do need to just shut up and move on.
Exactly.
People hate on Tebow because of the constant bombardment from the media and they got crucified because they were picking on a christian.
Then Johny Football comes around and the cool/P.C. and right thing to do is crucify him . The people that actually say they like him are bashed.
That tosser Sterling and Larry Johnson.
100% hypocritical IMO and that is one thing I can not stand.
There is 1000000 times this crap happens but the majority just usually shuts up and takes it on the chin.
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