OT: Does anyone else think it's not just a coincidence. . .

[Lolly Hog]

. . . that Jim Bob Duggar sent son Josh to a "close friend" for a lecture after Josh "confessed to molestimg his sisters, and said friend is now serving a 56 year sentence for child pornography?

And that the cult that the Duggars follow for their home schooling (ATI) is led by one Bob Gothard ( age 80), who surrounds himself with very attractive young women and who is suspected of assaulting more than thirty of them over the years?

Shades of Carcosa.

Gothard's teaching materials tell girls that if they feel offended, assaulted, whatever, they need to soul search and ask themselves what they were wearing, did they smile at a boy, etc. This makes me more than angry.

I have been vaguely aware of the Duggars for years, since I am from Springdale. I didn't know until a few months ago that they have (had?) a reality show. People actually watched that crap?

 

[japierce]

The apologetic prapoganda aired by Fox tonight was gross. You have three pages of people going on and on about how disgusted they are by Bruce Jenner, but many of the same people will avoid this thread altogether.

 

[c4life72404]

I knew very little about the Duggars until all of this stuff with the son came to light. How they have a reality show is beyond me. How did that even come about?

 

[pigem]

After the Penn State debacle, nothing surprises me!

 

[razrback5]

The apologetic prapoganda aired by Fox tonight was gross. You have three pages of people going on and on about how disgusted they are by Bruce Jenner, but many of the same people will avoid this thread altogether.

Really? I mean, I'm sure they are sorry and regretful.

As for the situation, it's appalling and just very sad on many levels. You know with that many kids it's impossible not to fail them as parents.

 

[Quenting]

. . . that Jim Bob Duggar sent son Josh to a "close friend" for a lecture after Josh "confessed to molestimg his sisters, and said friend is now serving a 56 year sentence for child pornography?

And that the cult that the Duggars follow for their home schooling (ATI) is led by one Bob Gothard ( age 80), who surrounds himself with very attractive young women and who is suspected of assaulting more than thirty of them over the years?

Shades of Carcosa.

Gothard's teaching materials tell girls that if they feel offended, assaulted, whatever, they need to soul search and ask themselves what they were wearing, did they smile at a boy, etc. This makes me more than angry.

I have been vaguely aware of the Duggars for years, since I am from Springdale. I didn't know until a few months ago that they have (had?) a reality show. People actually watched that crap?

Jesus railed at the hypocrites---the whited sepulchers.

 

[WMFC]

Yeah this show has been around for years. I've never been a fan of them, but even more so in this past year when the Mom stuck her nose in the Fayetteville city ordinance issue (even though they don't live there). They claimed that allowing a non-discrimination ordinance in Fayetteville would result in men going in the women's bathrooms and molesting people's daughters. Meanwhile, they were protecting a child molester all these years. Hypocrites of the worst kind.

 

[THE UofA]

Makes me cringe every time I've seen one of those family members in a Razorback shirt/hat/etc. Embarrassment to the state.

 

[WMFC]

Makes me cringe every time I've seen one of those family members in a Razorback shirt/hat/etc. Embarrassment to the state.

Yeah and the child molester has #GoHogs on his twitter account. Ughhhh...

 

[SausagePatty]

Really? I mean, I'm sure they are sorry and regretful.

As for the situation, it's appalling and just very sad on many levels. You know with that many kids it's impossible not to fail them as parents.

Sorry and regretful and PERVERTS. It is not okay for a 14-year-old to fondle his 5-year-old sister, or 5 of his sisters. What 14-year-old does not know incest is wrong?

 

[razrback5]

Sorry and regretful and PERVERTS. It is not okay for a 14-year-old to fondle his 5-year-old sister, or 5 of his sisters. What 14-year-old does not know incest is wrong?

Wait a minute. Did I excuse a damn thing this sick punk did or his parents? Did you read anything other than the first sentence?

Is despicable and inexcusable and was not handled correctly whatsoever. I absolutely do NOT want to appear that I'm defending these people. I'm not.

My point is not to compare the freak show Jenner to these pitiful people. It's just fanning the flames of religious banter which rarely brings anything productive to this board.

 

[SausagePatty]

Wait a minute. Did I excuse a damn thing this sick punk did or his parents? Did you read anything other than the first sentence?

Is despicable and inexcusable and was not handled correctly whatsoever. I absolutely do NOT want to appear that I'm defending these people. I'm not.

My point is not to compare the freak show Jenner to these pitiful people. It's just fanning the flames of religious banter which rarely brings anything productive to this board.

Sorry, it sounded like you were trying to make it seem like it wasn't a bad thing. I agree with your point about Jenner. Thanks for clarifying.

 

[razrback5]

Sorry, it sounded like you were trying to make it seem like it wasn't a bad thing. I agree with your point about Jenner. Thanks for clarifying.

You bet and glad to clear the air. Never wanted to come across that way.

 

[japierce]

For the record I am a Christian man, and I do believe in Grace and forgiveness, but the attempt to gloss over this and all but excusing it for some sort of political agenda, is gross to me. It trying to be spun with religous overtones, but it's not a religous issue, it's a political ploy and it's gross, in my opinion.

 

[ClearLakeHog-2]

If I had a 14-year-old that did that I would get counseling but probably not report it to the police.

We do not know how contrite the son was and how he prayed for forgiveness. He may truly be reformed and upright now.

 

[titanhawg]

As a Christian, as far as sex changes go, I do believe there are biological issues that effect many of these men and women (not all of them) and thus I believe it is a medical issue that's no different than many other medical issue (not in all cases, though). Some of the medical issues are based on things that happened during development in the womb...and some are psychological.

As far as the Duggars...it does come down to "practice what you preach." It does appear they tried to cover it up and for Jim Bob to make statements about people who participate in incest and the death penalty and then find out about his son...well...it's shameful. They could have handled this a lot better.

 

[Gary Busey]

 

[RazorbackForever]

If I had a 14-year-old that did that I would get counseling but probably not report it to the police.

We do not know how contrite the son was and how he prayed for forgiveness. He may truly be reformed and upright now.

I agree. I am not trying to incite a riot, but I don't understand what they should've done differently. As parents they got him counseling, got him out of the house and even decided for him to come clean with the law. I know much has been made over the lack of credibility of the officer who took Josh's confession, but what proof do we have the Jim Bob knew about it or had any idea that this guy was not legit? He could've just avoided the police, altogether, and dealt with it in house - but he knew that if Josh had to come clean to the law, there would be more accountability (and less chance of him being a repeat offender later in life). If he is "covering this up", why did he ever go to the authorities? That does not make sense. Sounds to me like the Duggars did what any sensible parent would do - and even went above and beyond what most would do (in having Josh self report to the police)

Again, I'm not excusing Josh's actions, I am just saying - if you were the parent, what would you have done?

 

[razrback5]

For the record I am a Christian man, and I do believe in Grace and forgiveness, but the attempt to gloss over this and all but excusing it for some sort of political agenda, is gross to me. It trying to be spun with religous overtones, but it's not a religous issue, it's a political ploy and it's gross, in my opinion.

Agreed. It's inexcusable and despicable.

 

[woodlandshawg]

This sickens me.

 

[Method Ham]

First, let it be known that I'm a Christian. I go to church every Sunday, but admittedly fall short in many areas of my faith.

That said, there are certain Christians who cast many stones, but claim "persecution" when stones are cast at them. The Duggars are embarrassing on so many levels.

 

[razrback5]

First, let it be known that I'm a Christian. I go to church every Sunday, but admittedly fall short in many areas of my faith.

That said, there are certain Christians who cast many stones, but claim "persecution" when stones are cast at them. The Duggars are embarrassing on so many levels.

I'm with you on each point of this post.

 

[wps88 2.0]

If I had a 14-year-old that did that I would get counseling but probably not report it to the police.

We do not know how contrite the son was and how he prayed for forgiveness. He may truly be reformed and upright now.

There are certain things that "praying" can't correct or overcome. This was one of those things.

 

[The_Pig_Lebowski]

If I had a 14-year-old that did that I would get counseling but probably not report it to the police.

We do not know how contrite the son was and how he prayed for forgiveness. He may truly be reformed and upright now.

That would make you a felon. The only reason Jim Bob isn't headed to the clink is because the statute of limitations has expired.

A 15 year old that molests a 5 year old is a sociopathic pedophile. At 15 I knew right from wrong and what my pecker was for. And anyone that protects that pedophile is a festering piece of excrement as well. Just as bad as JOPA and the Catholic church that protected pedophiles for years allowing them to molest more children.

I watched the Duggar show. But I'm done with them. They always seemed a little weird and creepy. They always had a strange myopic cultish vibe about them and now it all makes sense. They are as creepy as they seem.

 

[BOSSHOGFREE]

If the Duggars were sincere in their attempt to get him help I would agree with that course of action. However there is too much smoke in this. I've never understood their desire to keep having kids. It's hard not to doubt their motives about anything. I am a Christian, It's good to see that (so far) the son hasn't had any more issues (that we know of). I hope he has accepted his wrong doings and truly changed himself. I hope more though that the girls didn't suffer psychological issues of distrust etc from the encounters. The fact that family is on TV isn't what makes this sensational. On one hand I hate that they are seen as a face of Christianity and on the other hand isn't that what Christianity is all about. Facing your wrong doings, owning up to them, confessing to God, giving/accepting forgiveness, beginning anew as a changed person, and sharing that with others so they can do the same?

It seems the Duggers made poor choices at best in who they sent their son to and are liable at worst. I hope the former is true. If they are liable they will suffer the consequences of those actionsand will need rectify that with their children and God.

 

[The_Pig_Lebowski]

Yeah this show has been around for years. I've never been a fan of them, but even more so in this past year when the Mom stuck her nose in the Fayetteville city ordinance issue (even though they don't live there). They claimed that allowing a non-discrimination ordinance in Fayetteville would result in men going in the women's bathrooms and molesting people's daughters. Meanwhile, they were protecting a child molester all these years. Hypocrites of the worst kind.

Amen.

 

[HogPocket9455]

This issue stokes the flames of the prevailing religious cynicism.

I am no fan of religion, but I find it abhorrent that people would attempt to use this issue as avenue to propogate further cynicism. The dignity and innocence of those little girls shouldn't be used as social capital, especially as these young women now may still not understand the gravity of the situation due to the environment they were raised in.

Because Jenner was referenced, I stand in the same position on both decisions like his and the decision to be religious: those things are private and belong in the home only. Child molestation however should not be kept a secret among the family (and friends) but deserves to be made public so society can protect those that can not or do not know to protect themselves.

 

[dookiehead]

Having 15 kids is child abuse. No way they were able to provide appropriate supervision and guidance over that many children. The older children most likely raised the younger ones while the mother was constantly pregnant. Faith in a higher power has its place for sure but Christians hiding behind their religion is no different than other religions that do the same. At least they are not cutting peoples heads off.

 

[hpharri1994]

The Duggars are an embarrassment to the state of Arkansas. Always have been.

 

[RazorbackForever]

If the Duggars were sincere in their attempt to get him help I would agree with that course of action. However there is too much smoke in this. I've never understood their desire to keep having kids. It's hard not to doubt their motives about anything. I am a Christian, It's good to see that (so far) the son hasn't had any more issues (that we know of). I hope he has accepted his wrong doings and truly changed himself. I hope more though that the girls didn't suffer psychological issues of distrust etc from the encounters. The fact that family is on TV isn't what makes this sensational. On one hand I hate that they are seen as a face of Christianity and on the other hand isn't that what Christianity is all about. Facing your wrong doings, owning up to them, confessing to God, giving/accepting forgiveness, beginning anew as a changed person, and sharing that with others so they can do the same?

It seems the Duggers made poor choices at best in who they sent their son to and are liable at worst. I hope the former is true. If they are liable they will suffer the consequences of those actionsand will need rectify that with their children and God.

I'll agree that if something comes out that suggests that their attempts to get Josh help &/or reporting his wrongdoing to the authorities were disingenuous, they should definitely be held liable - and in that case, I would not defend their actions, whatsoever. However, if what they say is true and the only "acts" were inappropriate touching on outside of clothes and once or twice under clothes - and the girls had no idea that they had been inappropriately touched - coupled with the fact that he reported himself to his parents and the authorities - they should be given the benefit of the doubt. Never watched their show and don't care to, but I think they should get benefit of the doubt until someone can prove that the situation played out differently than what they said

 

[WMFC]

If I had a 14-year-old that did that I would get counseling but probably not report it to the police.

We do not know how contrite the son was and how he prayed for forgiveness. He may truly be reformed and upright now.

You can't be serious.......SMH

 

[B0b L0blaw]

The irony/hypocrisy of the Duggar situation is pretty strong. Reality TV in general is a cancer on humanity, this show was no different. TLC really knows how to pick them, aka Here Comes Honey Boo Boo.

 

[RazorbackForever]

You can't be serious.......SMH

You can't be serious. You would just throw your son to the wolves if he came and told you that he had been having those thoughts and/or had touched some girls outside of their clothing while they slept? What the hell kind of parent are you? He did not rape anyone - he was a boy going through puberty. They got him out of the house and got him help. Things like this happen to lots of families these days. Because they had a son that did this, should they have given up on the values they believed in and stopped striving to be better people? That is not hypocrisy. People act like they should just go live in some hole and not stay true to their convictions, just because they had a son with some issues.

I would agree with you if he had raped them, exposed himself to them, or gone further than "touching for a few seconds in their sleep on top of their clothes" and according to the Duggars that only happened a couple of times. The girls he "molestested" were not even aware that he had molested them. To say that he is a sociopathic pedophile is going way past what the facts of the case indicate.

 

[AtlantaRazorback]

The irony/hypocrisy of the Duggar situation is pretty strong. Reality TV in general is a cancer on humanity, this show was no different. TLC really knows how to pick them, aka Here Comes Honey Boo Boo.

What do these two things have in common??? I've always refused to watch anything Kardasian and anything Duggar. I've killed far fewer brain cells as a result. Why we celebrate and put these ridiculous people out there is beyond me. But the PROBLEM is not them, it is the damn people that watch them. Without an audience lapping it up, they're not on TV.

But these people maligned a group of people as pedophiles (transgendered people, all of them) in robocalls with money financed from their show and broadcast it in Fayetteville to kill a non discrimination bill there. They don't even live in Fayetteville. ALL THE WHILE, they had molesters in their own family they were covering up.

Also, and i'm not saying anything happened from the father to Josh. But studies do show that molesters like Josh have usually been molested themselves.

And spare me the "they sent their kid to a counselor" BS. They sent him to another freak show quack who is NOT a licensed counselor and who just happens to be in prison for child pornography.

And Bruce Jenner sucks. I suspect from that family its just another BS way to get ratings and money. I support those who are gender confused and know a couple who have undergone surgery. I hope I'm wrong and he's finding his happiness. But very little from that family suggests anything "real" is going on with anything they do. They get married, it's a spectacle and it's over in weeks. Sex change, why not? I've never watched one episode but still can't escape.

RANT over

 

[dmjinc71]

You can't be serious. You would just throw your son to the wolves if he came and told you that he had been having those thoughts and/or had touched some girls outside of their clothing while they slept? What the hell kind of parent are you? He did not rape anyone - he was a boy going through puberty. They got him out of the house and got him help. Things like this happen to lots of families these days. Because they had a son that did this, should they have given up on the values they believed in and stopped striving to be better people? That is not hypocrisy. People act like they should just go live in some hole and not stay true to their convictions, just because they had a son with some issues.

it would be a hell of a tough decision as a parent, for sure. I can tell you I wouldn't just drop my son off at the police station with a sign around his neck. But I also wouldn't do what they did, which is just ship him off to do manual labor for 3 months. they've come out and said they didn't take him to any actual specialist. At a minimum, you'd want to take every step to ensure his mental problems are addressed, and they didn't do that. And you'd want to take every step to make sure his victim's problems are addressed, and they didn't do that.

Touching a grown woman outside of her clothing while she sleeps is a crime and a sign of a serious mental problem. Doing it to an underage girl is a crime, and a sign of serious problems well beyond just being a boy going through puberty. You can't just pray away a mental problem.

The right thing to do would be to get a good lawyer, and with that lawyer go turn yourself in and negotiate a plea deal that gets the kids the kind of help they need. It would be a hard thing to do, but as a father I couldn't live with myself if I didn't do that and it happened again. But in my opinion, the Duggars were more worried about their own standing/reputation/brand that they weren't willing to do what was right.

 

[soarkman]

What bothers me is I already defend my home state against the "Ya'll marry your sister crap" and so on and now this. Just more national negative Arkansas publicity. Every family has secrets but like another poster mentioned what teenage boy doesn't know its wrong to "touch" his sister inappropriately? I was never in that situation with my kids thank the lord so I am not going to pretend how I would handle it. I do know I wouldn't go around acting like it was no big deal!

Another thing that bothers me by this, I am a Christian, was saved at 16 and when I die my place in heaven is set. In saying that I have a problem with Christians painting a "I am better than you mentality" on others. Like I said before NO FAMILY is without secrets. I have seen it time and time again in churches. Now more and more will speak out against Christians because of things like this getting out with such well known people.
Defending Arkansas is one thing and then having to defend being Christian is another.... rant over lol

 

[WMFC]

You can't be serious. You would just throw your son to the wolves if he came and told you that he had been having those thoughts and/or had touched some girls outside of their clothing while they slept? What the hell kind of parent are you? He did not rape anyone - he was a boy going through puberty. They got him out of the house and got him help. Things like this happen to lots of families these days. Because they had a son that did this, should they have given up on the values they believed in and stopped striving to be better people? That is not hypocrisy. People act like they should just go live in some hole and not stay true to their convictions, just because they had a son with some issues.

I would agree with you if he had raped them, exposed himself to them, or gone further than "touching for a few seconds in their sleep on top of their clothes" and according to the Duggars that only happened a couple of times. The girls he "molestested" were not even aware that he had molested them. To say that he is a sociopathic pedophile is going way past what the facts of the case indicate.

Jesus Christ..........

 

[WMFC]

He did not rape anyone - he was a boy going through puberty. They got him out of the house and got him help.

Peace out. I am done with this thread....

 

[wps88 2.0]

Jesus Christ..........

Yes?

 

[RazorbackForever]

it would be a hell of a tough decision as a parent, for sure. I can tell you I wouldn't just drop my son off at the police station with a sign around his neck. But I also wouldn't do what they did, which is just ship him off to do manual labor for 3 months. they've come out and said they didn't take him to any actual specialist. At a minimum, you'd want to take every step to ensure his mental problems are addressed, and they didn't do that. And you'd want to take every step to make sure his victim's problems are addressed, and they didn't do that.

Touching a grown woman outside of her clothing while she sleeps is a crime and a sign of a serious mental problem. Doing it to an underage girl is a crime, and a sign of serious problems well beyond just being a boy going through puberty. You can't just pray away a mental problem.

The right thing to do would be to get a good lawyer, and with that lawyer go turn yourself in and negotiate a plea deal that gets the kids the kind of help they need. It would be a hard thing to do, but as a father I couldn't live with myself if I didn't do that and it happened again. But in my opinion, the Duggars were more worried about their own standing/reputation/brand that they weren't willing to do what was right.

The Duggars are on record saying that not only did they send Josh for manual labor & "christian counseling" but after he came back to the family and turned himself in to the police - both he and all of the girls got professional counseling from a legally certified individual. So to say that they just did the "manual labor christian counseling" is factually incorrect. They did get Josh a professional shrink so that argument is just untrue. I'm not saying that they got it 100% right - but they were far from negligent

For the record, I've never seen the show and don't really care about the Duggars - except that they are Christian brothers and sisters. You can believe or not in the power of Christ to transform an individual or not - but the fact is, they got Josh christian counseling and professional (non-christian affiliated) help. That would be good enough for me if he was cleared - by the professional - which he was.