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Race and Ethnicity in Sports

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JeanLucPiggard

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Oct 19, 2010
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Not trying to start a race or political attack here, but would like to hear the opinions of our members.

I was listening to a national sports radio show recently. The topic was how NFL owners and College ADs were basically racist (although this was the point it wasn't directly said). Steven A. Smith, whom I believe to be a racist, ranted on and on about how there weren't enough GMs in the NFL, and head coaches in the NFL and college who were black. He kept on and on, raising his voice over the others and cited everything from racism, backlash from whites over the presidential election, etc...He stated that there should be a percentage that is at least equal to or greater than the % of the populations that African Americans make up. He said this should also apply to College ADs, and NFL OWNERS! He said that when an NFL team comes up for sale, the government should intervene and offer the franchise first to potential black owners.............

I worked in corporate America for almost 20 years. Most of that time I've held senior leadership positions and been in roles that require me to build management teams. I think diversity is good, and hiring a person based on race or ethnicity is wrong - period. I can't stand racism or the reverse. I've been personally involved with many affirmative action situations. I've been forced to hire, at times, a person who is not the most talented or experienced due to having to maintain a representative work force. You should hire the best person regardless of race. Right or wrong, affirmative action, in some cases, keeps that from happening.

That said. If affirmative action is good enough for the govt workforce and corporate America, why not for sports? If guys like Steven A. Smith (and many, many others) feel that black America is not given a fair shot at team ownership, coaching, GM roles, etc......would they agree to simply making it a rule that all sports positions -- even the team players -- be filled according to our current national ethnic makeup? This shouldn't be double sided should it?

Here is the current breakdown of race in America: White - 78% Black - 13%.

Here is the NBA roster breakdown: White - 17% Black - 78%

NFL: White - 30% Black - 67%

So, if diversity is the rule that is intended within American sports (and the workplace), would everyone go along with changing the players that make up the roster? I don't know why there would be 2 different standards.

Again, this was the topic of a national sports show last week and I started thinking about the makeup of the rosters and wondered why it wouldn't apply unilaterally. Thoughts?
 
Here's the problem...and let me say this first: I'm a white female.

The issue is that for 200 years, white males controlled everything in this country. Over time, we've made progress, and yes, affirmative action isn't the best answer...but in some situations, I'm sure it's helped bring about some fairness.

I know as a female, that many, many times, I've been paid less than my male counterpart...and was passed up for promotion in a job I had once, even though I had been at the company longer than my male counterpart and had better numbers.

There's still a large "good ol boys" network out there, which is mostly made up of white males, and their first choice is almost always another white male.

So...yes, what is good for the goose is good for the gander...but there are still many areas that need improvement. Affirmative Action is not the answer...but neither is the old saying "the most qualified should get the job", because it's so subjective.

I bring up the male / female issue because it's at the least in the same ballpark as the race issue when it comes to jobs. I don't know this, but I would also imagine in many areas, it's easier for a white woman to get a job over a black female.

It would be great if jobs were given without knowing the person's name, sex, race, religion, etc...but of course, that's the perfect world we DON'T live in.

Lastly...I don't think a woman or a minority should be hired because of their sex or race...but they should truly be hired if they are the best candidate...and they should be paid the same as anyone else.
 
I am happy to join with you today in what will go down in history as the greatest demonstration for freedom in the history of our nation.

Five score years ago, a great American, in whose symbolic shadow we stand today, signed the Emancipation Proclamation. This momentous decree came as a great beacon light of hope to millions of Negro slaves who had been seared in the flames of withering injustice. It came as a joyous daybreak to end the long night of their captivity.

But one hundred years later, the Negro still is not free. One hundred years later, the life of the Negro is still sadly crippled by the manacles of segregation and the chains of discrimination. One hundred years later, the Negro lives on a lonely island of poverty in the midst of a vast ocean of material prosperity. One hundred years later, the Negro is still languishing in the corners of American society and finds himself an exile in his own land. So we have come here today to dramatize a shameful condition.

In a sense we have come to our nation's capital to cash a check. When the architects of our republic wrote the magnificent words of the Constitution and the Declaration of Independence, they were signing a promissory note to which every American was to fall heir. This note was a promise that all men, yes, black men as well as white men, would be guaranteed the unalienable rights of life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.

It is obvious today that America has defaulted on this promissory note insofar as her citizens of color are concerned. Instead of honoring this sacred obligation, America has given the Negro people a bad check, a check which has come back marked "insufficient funds." But we refuse to believe that the bank of justice is bankrupt. We refuse to believe that there are insufficient funds in the great vaults of opportunity of this nation. So we have come to cash this check -- a check that will give us upon demand the riches of freedom and the security of justice. We have also come to this hallowed spot to remind America of the fierce urgency of now. This is no time to engage in the luxury of cooling off or to take the tranquilizing drug of gradualism. Now is the time to make real the promises of democracy. Now is the time to rise from the dark and desolate valley of segregation to the sunlit path of racial justice. Now is the time to lift our nation from the quick sands of racial injustice to the solid rock of brotherhood. Now is the time to make justice a reality for all of God's children.


It would be fatal for the nation to overlook the urgency of the moment. This sweltering summer of the Negro's legitimate discontent will not pass until there is an invigorating autumn of freedom and equality. Nineteen sixty-three is not an end, but a beginning. Those who hope that the Negro needed to blow off steam and will now be content will have a rude awakening if the nation returns to business as usual. There will be neither rest nor tranquility in America until the Negro is granted his citizenship rights. The whirlwinds of revolt will continue to shake the foundations of our nation until the bright day of justice emerges.

But there is something that I must say to my people who stand on the warm threshold which leads into the palace of justice. In the process of gaining our rightful place we must not be guilty of wrongful deeds. Let us not seek to satisfy our thirst for freedom by drinking from the cup of bitterness and hatred.

We must forever conduct our struggle on the high plane of dignity and discipline. We must not allow our creative protest to degenerate into physical violence. Again and again we must rise to the majestic heights of meeting physical force with soul force. The marvelous new militancy which has engulfed the Negro community must not lead us to a distrust of all white people, for many of our white brothers, as evidenced by their presence here today, have come to realize that their destiny is tied up with our destiny. They have come to realize that their freedom is inextricably bound to our freedom. We cannot walk alone.

As we walk, we must make the pledge that we shall always march ahead. We cannot turn back. There are those who are asking the devotees of civil rights, "When will you be satisfied?" We can never be satisfied as long as the Negro is the victim of the unspeakable horrors of police brutality. We can never be satisfied, as long as our bodies, heavy with the fatigue of travel, cannot gain lodging in the motels of the highways and the hotels of the cities. We cannot be satisfied as long as the Negro's basic mobility is from a smaller ghetto to a larger one. We can never be satisfied as long as our children are stripped of their selfhood and robbed of their dignity by signs stating "For Whites Only". We cannot be satisfied as long as a Negro in Mississippi cannot vote and a Negro in New York believes he has nothing for which to vote. No, no, we are not satisfied, and we will not be satisfied until justice rolls down like waters and righteousness like a mighty stream.

I am not unmindful that some of you have come here out of great trials and tribulations. Some of you have come fresh from narrow jail cells. Some of you have come from areas where your quest for freedom left you battered by the storms of persecution and staggered by the winds of police brutality. You have been the veterans of creative suffering. Continue to work with the faith that unearned suffering is redemptive.

Go back to Mississippi, go back to Alabama, go back to South Carolina, go back to Georgia, go back to Louisiana, go back to the slums and ghettos of our northern cities, knowing that somehow this situation can and will be changed. Let us not wallow in the valley of despair.

I say to you today, my friends, so even though we face the difficulties of today and tomorrow, I still have a dream. It is a dream deeply rooted in the American dream.

I have a dream that one day this nation will rise up and live out the true meaning of its creed: "We hold these truths to be self-evident: that all men are created equal."

I have a dream that one day on the red hills of Georgia the sons of former slaves and the sons of former slave owners will be able to sit down together at the table of brotherhood.

I have a dream that one day even the state of Mississippi, a state sweltering with the heat of injustice, sweltering with the heat of oppression, will be transformed into an oasis of freedom and justice.

I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin but by the content of their character.

I have a dream today.

I have a dream that one day, down in Alabama, with its vicious racists, with its governor having his lips dripping with the words of interposition and nullification; one day right there in Alabama, little black boys and black girls will be able to join hands with little white boys and white girls as sisters and brothers.

I have a dream today.

I have a dream that one day every valley shall be exalted, every hill and mountain shall be made low, the rough places will be made plain, and the crooked places will be made straight, and the glory of the Lord shall be revealed, and all flesh shall see it together.

This is our hope. This is the faith that I go back to the South with. With this faith we will be able to hew out of the mountain of despair a stone of hope. With this faith we will be able to transform the jangling discords of our nation into a beautiful symphony of brotherhood. With this faith we will be able to work together, to pray together, to struggle together, to go to jail together, to stand up for freedom together, knowing that we will be free one day.

This will be the day when all of God's children will be able to sing with a new meaning, "My country, 'tis of thee, sweet land of liberty, of thee I sing. Land where my fathers died, land of the pilgrim's pride, from every mountainside, let freedom ring."

And if America is to be a great nation this must become true. So let freedom ring from the prodigious hilltops of New Hampshire. Let freedom ring from the mighty mountains of New York. Let freedom ring from the heightening Alleghenies of Pennsylvania!

Let freedom ring from the snowcapped Rockies of Colorado!

Let freedom ring from the curvaceous slopes of California!

But not only that; let freedom ring from Stone Mountain of Georgia!

Let freedom ring from Lookout Mountain of Tennessee!

Let freedom ring from every hill and molehill of Mississippi. From every mountainside, let freedom ring.

And when this happens, when we allow freedom to ring, when we let it ring from every village and every hamlet, from every state and every city, we will be able to speed up that day when all of God's children, black men and white men, Jews and Gentiles, Protestants and Catholics, will be able to join hands and sing in the words of the old Negro spiritual, "Free at last! free at last! thank God Almighty, we are free at last!"
 
I'm fine with all of it. I just limited the discussion based on the argument Steven A. Smith was making.
 
Charlie - Great speech. You write it? Jk of course. Was hoping for some honest opinions and feedback.??
This post was edited on 3/5 1:03 AM by JeanLucPiggard
 
First let me say that I'm a African American male. With that being said I will be the first to say that a lot of the time the race card is played as a cop out for many African American. My mom raised me to strive for what you want out of life. Nothing will never be handed to you. But on the flip side as far as the good ol boy system goes I think a lot of races still have that system. Is it fair hell no, but it happens everyday. Woman are just like African Americans or any other minority when it comes to being fairly compensated in the work force. I think it boils down to people fear what they don't know.


Never done research on what I'm about to type but how many AD's in the SWAC conference are white? And how often does coaches who coach in the SWAC move out the SWAC and up the coaching tree in a power conference? It goes both ways.

I know of a senior staff where there are 13 people. Of the 13 you have 1 African American male, and 1 white lady. The rest are white males. Does something seem strange about that yes. But what can be done about it?
 
I know it's a sensitive topic for some, but not me because I know I'm not racist. I have a management team under me. One is a white male (here when I got here), one is a 50 yr old black female, and since I took this job in late June, I've hired a 60 year old south american woman who is my best manager, and a 45 year old black woman. I don't care what race or gender someone is, I hire the BEST option I have because at the end of the day, it's my ass on the line.

Now on the flip side, a few years ago, when I was interviewing in different states for a promotion with my company, I was passed up on two jobs just because I wasn't black (wasn't told until a few years later), so I have little sympathy on this subject. My best friend is black so we talk about this stuff. A lot of people are afraid to hire black people because if they don't perform, you can't fire them because no matter the situation, black people will play the race card (not all of them of course) and that'll lead to lawsuit. My best friend even told me he keeps his "card" in his back pocket at all times.
 
That's funny. Sad if true as far as keeping his "card" in his back pocket. Still funny though.
 
It's never a rational or fair fight when it comes to politics. Inherently something is corrupt. Stephen A is just stirring it up as always that's his job to create drama he gets paid millions to do that and yell back and forth with whitey skip bayless.

I want a greek NFL owner to see if they can generate enough entitlements and debt on one team to crush the whole NFL.
 
Tired of hearing about blacks and Hispanics. What about "true" aliens such as Dennis Rudman who is from the planet URANUS. Why is he allowed to talk with N Korea? Sarcasm Alert.
 
I would feel a lot better about Stephen A's argument if he was just as passionate in promoting that players, coaches, front office and ownership all play under the same rules. That is that the same percentage of players, coaches, front office and owners all reflect their ethnicity in the country. The fact that he is fine with numbers of black athletes yet very unhappy about management strikes me as disingenuous. What is good for one is good for the other.
 
I am in the camp that the best qualified available person should be hired, regardless of age, race, sex, and sexual orientation. To deny hiring the best available because they do not fit one of those categories is just plain retarded.
 
The argument is not about the player ratio, but rather about the upper-tier power jobs. Jobs such as Coaches, AD's, Owners, GM's, these jobs are the most powerful jobs in professional sports. The argument is that the old problem of inclusion without power persists because while African Americans can make money for their teams and their professional organizations, many of these organizations are run almost dominantly by Whites. I agree, the job should be won based on merit and not on skin color, and blatant racism may not be a huge factor; but yet the power dynamic still exists. Look at MLB, how many owners in the game are African-American: Only one, Magic Johnson. And that didn't happen until he bought the Dodgers in 2012. This situation needs to be discussed and debated and if possible, remedied.
 
The right Man or Woman should be hired for the Job, end of story. The thing that bothers me is how much the race card has been played over the last 5 1/2 years. I am a manager at a dealership in small town south arkansas. I also spent 6 years in the national guard. Of those 6 years in the Guard my squad leader, Platoon Seargent, and company comander were all African Americans. One of my Groomsman in my wedding was a black male. He is and always will be like a older brother to me. We have travled all over south united states together a lot in the last 15 years. Why cant we just all get along...


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1dgAaCUa4nM&feature=player_detailpage
 
Don't know about the nba as I havent watched a game in probably a decade or more, but to the nfl...the actual staggering number is te amount of black coaches not re-hired after being fired as a head coach. I don't remember the exact numbers but a large % of white hc's end getting another shot as a hc. There's only been 1 or 2 black hc's get another shot at a hc job.

I'm all for best man for the job, but something seems out of place there.
 
Almost a 3rd of NFL teams hired coaches in the offseason and not one was a minority. Minorities are almost never hired in any front office jobs in any sports league, however the General managers of the last two super bowl champions were black. People in upper management jobs hire people they are most comfortable with and the majority of the time that happens to be a white male. White males who think they don't have an advantage in the hiring process are delusional. No one gets screwed more in the hiring process than unattractive women. I don't understand why women can't coach men's basketball teams while men coach women.
 
This is all a bunch of crap. If you want to own a professional team go buy one. There is no law stopping you. If what alot of you are saying is true "population 78% white, 13% black and the % of players in the NBA is 78% black 13% white. If this is correct and we go by what you are saying then you would have to get rid of a whole bunch of black NBA players to make things even. Which is stupid. Whoever works the hardest and smartest should be rewarded for their effort regardless of color or gender. Ask Artie Moreno owner of the Anaheim Angels. People wanting something for nothing is ruining the United States. Ask Greece how
it is working out for them Or Detroit Mich same issues.
 
I don't understand why women can't coach men's basketball teams while men coach women.
Click to expand...
I know when I was a 17 or 18 year old badass, I would have never respected a female coach in basketball, football, or baseball. Teachers or other types of "authoritative" figures? Sure. Coach? Hell no.

I don't know why that is. I'm guessing part physiological and part cultural.
 
The owner argument is ridiculous. There were 2,692 people in the US worth at least $100 million in 2012. Of those, 17 were black. Of those, 4 weren't athletes, rappers or Oprah. Two of them owned BET. Like the poster before me said, if you want to own a team, buy one.
 
I'm with Cosby on race card being an excuse. I have not seen the statistics but I feel confident that the percentage of upper level jobs in this country when compared to college degrees is probably close. You said African Americans make up about 30% of the population. In 2010 they only made up about 10% of the college graduate population so total work force would be much lower. If you go higher than bachelors it would be interesting to see. The point is there are just not many African Americans qualified for upper level jobs academically.

Women on the other hand probably have a right to complain. They have more graduates almost every year than men.
Posted from Rivals Mobile
 
If this is something in which you have a real interest in discussing, someone known as a histrionic polemic is fine as a catalyst for a discussion, but his viewpoint should probably not be the position used to evaluate the virtue of, broadly construed, its "side."

Hiring and giving opportunity to purchase are two different things. For instance, most people who end up coaching were quite good at the sport. They played pro, D1, or maybe were even scrubs on the DIII level; however, they are better than most at the sport. As the stats you cite demonstrate, there are a great many blacks...in fact, a disproportionate number...who excel at sports. That this achievement on the field hasn't yet translated to as much success on the sidelines suggests that something between Point A, being good at sports, and Point B, being hired to a high level coaching job (and by extension, to many front office jobs, though the connection between those and athletic skill aren't as great as with coaching), is not happening for as many of these guys. Maybe it turns out that many of them just don't have the makeup, maybe there's a great underground movement to hold them back. More likely, there are a bunch of factors at play here. The point is, though, that there is a high probability that something other than raw coaching ability is involved here and we should strive to fix it.

Owning teams is different; sports ability has nothing to do with it, only money. There are more white males with nine figure net worths than any other group in this country, I'd wager. If there are minorities who are potential owners who get turned away for no good reason, we should strive to fix that, as well, though again, I doubt the same types of issues are at play as with hiring.

Originally posted by JeanLucPiggard:
Not trying to start a race or political attack here, but would like to hear the opinions of our members.

I was listening to a national sports radio show recently. The topic was how NFL owners and College ADs were basically racist (although this was the point it wasn't directly said). Steven A. Smith, whom I believe to be a racist, ranted on and on about how there weren't enough GMs in the NFL, and head coaches in the NFL and college who were black. He kept on and on, raising his voice over the others and cited everything from racism, backlash from whites over the presidential election, etc...He stated that there should be a percentage that is at least equal to or greater than the % of the populations that African Americans make up. He said this should also apply to College ADs, and NFL OWNERS! He said that when an NFL team comes up for sale, the government should intervene and offer the franchise first to potential black owners.............

I worked in corporate America for almost 20 years. Most of that time I've held senior leadership positions and been in roles that require me to build management teams. I think diversity is good, and hiring a person based on race or ethnicity is wrong - period. I can't stand racism or the reverse. I've been personally involved with many affirmative action situations. I've been forced to hire, at times, a person who is not the most talented or experienced due to having to maintain a representative work force. You should hire the best person regardless of race. Right or wrong, affirmative action, in some cases, keeps that from happening.

That said. If affirmative action is good enough for the govt workforce and corporate America, why not for sports? If guys like Steven A. Smith (and many, many others) feel that black America is not given a fair shot at team ownership, coaching, GM roles, etc......would they agree to simply making it a rule that all sports positions -- even the team players -- be filled according to our current national ethnic makeup? This shouldn't be double sided should it?

Here is the current breakdown of race in America: White - 78% Black - 13%.

Here is the NBA roster breakdown: White - 17% Black - 78%

NFL: White - 30% Black - 67%

So, if diversity is the rule that is intended within American sports (and the workplace), would everyone go along with changing the players that make up the roster? I don't know why there would be 2 different standards.

Again, this was the topic of a national sports show last week and I started thinking about the makeup of the rosters and wondered why it wouldn't apply unilaterally. Thoughts?
Click to expand...
 
Originally posted by txstob:

I would feel a lot better about Stephen A's argument if he was just as passionate in promoting that players, coaches, front office and ownership all play under the same rules. That is that the same percentage of players, coaches, front office and owners all reflect their ethnicity in the country. The fact that he is fine with numbers of black athletes yet very unhappy about management strikes me as disingenuous. What is good for one is good for the other.
Click to expand...
I don't agree with all Smith said but there is no valid comparison between the players on one side and the coaches and owners on the other. Players are measured (and hired) based almost exclusively on their performance on the basketball floor. Figuring out who will be the best coach out of a pool of candidates involves much more subjective determinations (for example, does the person hiring the coach think they will work well with a particular candidate). Also, the development of coaches, and much more so the development of potential owners, is influenced by a lot more factors than just talent and work ethic. Opportunity is not evenly divided.
 
Here is my take on women. About 60 % are to emotional to use logic as a management tool. Very few have staying power in a corporate environment. It is a gender thing weather you agree or disagree.
 
Originally posted by sarkk:

Here is my take on women. About 60 % are to emotional to use logic as a management tool. Very few have staying power in a corporate environment. It is a gender thing weather you agree or disagree.
Click to expand...
And I'll add this, my damn job would be a hell of a lot easier if I didn't have to work with women, sad thing is, the 10% of women who are decent to work with would agree. Women are fun to look at in the work place, but that's it. Plus, studies show women gain weight as a result of less housework.
 
Just a touchy subject and one I see both sides of.

Do I hate this era of "polical corrcetness" where everyone is scared to say anything to or about anyone? Yes, but I understand where it is coming from.

Do I think affirmative action is reverse discrimination? Damn right, but I also see the value in it at it's core, just like unions in the workplace. Both are "good" in theory, but so hard to execute appropriately.

The real answer is that each one of us walks-the-walk. You cannot make others do/act right, but you can be the living example of doing the right thing. We change the world by changing ourselves. Do unto others...that simple really.

Stephen A. Smith is a tool. Listening to him discuss these type of topics is about like Spike Lee recently calling out Tarantino for making Django Unchained. Takes a racist to know one I guess.
 
Originally posted by sarkk:

Here is my take on women. About 60 % are to emotional to use logic as a management tool. Very few have staying? power in a corporate environment. It is a gender?thing weather you agree or disagree.?
Click to expand...
BS


This is what many men tell themselves so that they don't hire woman. I hope you're not that kind of guy.
This post was edited on 3/5 5:51 PM by titanhawg
 
The point of this post was not to debate whether or not affirmative action is right, wrong, good, or bad. I was simply curious if we agree to racial quotas in the coaching ranks, why would the same not be the rule for the players.

If affirmative action mandatesa certain ethnic makeup of an organization, then the rosters of the NBA and NFL would be very different. So, would those who support diversity - support it unilaterally and not favor a double standard. That's the question. There are plenty of white players that want to play in the NBA and NFL, and if we are going to do this, we have to go all the way.
 
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