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Health Insurance

Malpractice insurance adds about 7% to the cost of insurance.


I'm not trying to argue really, but the ACA doesn't represent a government takeover anymore than seatbelt laws, safety guidelines for cars and appliances, or regulations against dumping toxic waste.

Healthcare costs were rising at 2x to 3x inflation for 30 years. And because the relationship between the consumer and provider is so unbalanced, your not in a position to bargain when your sick, the market needed regulation. Just like any other regulated market.

You can argue whether it was done properly, but it is hardly a communist conspiracy.

We spend twice as much on healthcare as other developed countries, something had to give.
 
Loblaw, why would my doctor fabricate a story like that? And why would he tell me of all people. The more money you make, the more u pay for sh!t. That's kinda the way it goes.
 
Originally posted by eatlesshog:
Going forward the rates have little to do with the health insurance carriers. The insurers have to comply with a mandatory loss ratio of 80%. That means for every $1 you pay in premium, the insurer must pay our 80 cents in claims. That only gives them 20 cents on every dollar to operate their business and attempt to make a profit. The premium they charge going forward will all be based on this ratio. I work in this industry and I can tell you using this ratio nearly every plan is under priced at the moment. The new law did little to nothing to control the cost of care in the short term. The doctors, hospitals, pharmaceutical companies, medical equipment and device companies, etc. continue to charge more and more for their services and/or products. That coupled with the fact that utilization of these new plans is expected to be very high will most certainly drive premiums much higher in for the next several years. To implement a system like this they should have got a handle on costs first.
My wife takes a medicine that only Brand works for her (they have done tests at the clinic and it is 100% correct) .

Our insurance company will delay shipment for weeks and up to 2 months (and it is a critical medicine) even after the doctor has said on the prescription "Brand name Necessary".

She can get generic delivered in two to three days as they ship it anyway .

So please don't say the health insurance carriers have anything but profit in their mind. I have not been around it but I have seen hard working men of forty years and paying their premium every month get told they do not qualify for certain surgeries from these so called hand tied insurance companies B.S..

It is a cluster of all of them from the Government/drug companies/doctors/hospitals etc etc etc right to to the companies trying not to pay their employee's.Way to go Mackey you sir are a freaking genius.
 
There's enough blame to go around for everybody, but in the long run, the insurance rates, I don't care who writes the insurance, will reflect the overall claims expenses. In the long run, the increasingly bad health of this country is the problem. The rates for everybody will be reflected by the cost of overall health care. Obesity rates have doubled in the last 15 years, which affects heart disease, stroke, diabetes, cancer, and many other ailments. Until we get this under control, as well as the escalating cost of health equipment and health management, rates will continue to rise.

What are you doing to improve your health? It's up to everybody.
 
Dundee...one question.

You state that in Australia everyone's healthcare is free. So...who is paying for it? I assume the doctors, hospitals, nurses, etc get paid something?

I have friends from Canada, UK and Australia...and they all speak of "free healthcare"...which, of course, is not true. The citizens of each country pays for that healthcare in taxes. The government of each of those countries is not a business that makes money and gives out free health care to the citizens. The government takes money from its citizens and gives them healthcare in return. So...in the end, it's not different than here. The only difference is that we pay directly for our healthcare...and the major issue has been that some can't afford to pay directly...which is the major issue and problem with our healthcare system in the U.S.

Now...the amount of taxes in each country paid by each citizen will help decide if you actually get "free" healthcare. I'm assuming those who make the most money, pay the most taxes...thus they pay the most for healthcare. The poor in each of these countries most likely truly get "free" healthcare...at the cost of those who aren't poor.
This post was edited on 3/1 5:13 PM by titanhawg
 
ACA a step in the wrong direction. Just explain to me why a 64 year old male need maternity coverage? One size fits all insurance is absurd. They passed a bill they never read and each day we find out more and more about what is so very wrong with it. I have multiples of friends who have lost coverage, one with a special needs son. His policy was not ACA compliant, his replacement policy is three times higher. So much for your pre-existing conditions and best of all when FULLY implemented we will still have MILLIONS uninsured and health cost that even the CBO estimates will drive us deeper in debt and cost more jobs. But hey I'll be on medicare by then and will certainly be screwed. Hope I can find a doc that will see me. Oh we didn't even get to the doctor and nurse shortage that is looming, nor the hospital bed shortage. Stay healthy my friends.
 
What do you think will happen when it becomes law that you must have insurance. All the premiums go up and what they pay for things go down. If it was mandatory for every one to go to the dentist I could charge whatever I wanted and you would have to pay it. I disagree with the whole ObamaCare and also don't understand why you want to punish people for being successful. I guess the new American dream is to have 3 kids at 18 and live off the Government for ever. I see people paying for food with their food stamps and then push their buggy to a brand new Escalade. Just makes no sense.
 
You need maternity insurance for the same reason 30 year old women need coverage for prostate cancer.

Silly comment.
 
This will probably throw this thread directly to the grim bottom, but you guys talking about welfare queens should know that ...

discretionary spending is at it's lowest level since the 50's.

Welfare spending has been cut despite record rates of poverty.

Before taxes on the top bracket went up 3 percent last year taxes were at their lowest level ever. They are now at there lowest level ever excluding those 6 preceding years.

The government is taking in about 18% of GDP compared with a historic average of around 21.5%.

Real wages, meaning the amount of money people make for working adjusted for inflation stopped going up in the early 80's after rising in line with productivity (output per worker) in the 50 years prior. Some of that can be explained away by rises in purchasing power, things getting cheaper, but not all of it.

If you want to find the people who are screwing you, stop looking in the ghetto and the rural backwoods. It just isn't the case.
 
I am self-employed but make too much to get a subsidy for Obamacare. My old insurance expires at the end of March, so I went to the Blue Cross website to sign up for insurance. They offer a no-qualified plan that does not offer maternity coverage (I don't need it as my wife is 52) and the deductible is only $2500 for a family of four and the cost is $508/month. The Obamacare qualified plan gives us maternity coverage, has $3500 deductible and higher copays on office visits but costs $1189/mth for our family. If I take the non-qualified plan then I have to pay a tax/fine to the government for picking the plan that I would like to chose. Not fair do you think?
 
just to throw this out there......Not many people are on food stamps nowadays...are they :)

The young people are dragging their feet....like vampires, the Federal government needs fresh blood to pay for all the old sickies.

We used to think this was Communism :)

My son is a teacher in Arkansas and he might be better off not working at all than to see what he ends up with, down the road, for a pay check after insurance is held out


P.S. keep an eye out for the Obama administration, to start point at the Insurance companies as EVIL for making a profit. This will open the door for him to take it all over

Mob rule
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Originally posted by jhskiier:
This will probably throw this thread directly to the grim bottom, but you guys talking about welfare queens should know that ...

discretionary spending is at it's lowest level since the 50's.

Welfare spending has been cut despite record rates of poverty.

Before taxes on the top bracket went up 3 percent last year taxes were at their lowest level ever. They are now at there lowest level ever excluding those 6 preceding years.

The government is taking in about 18% of GDP compared with a historic average of around 21.5%.

Real wages, meaning the amount of money people make for working adjusted for inflation stopped going up in the early 80's after rising in line with productivity (output per worker) in the 50 years prior. Some of that can be explained away by rises in purchasing power, things getting cheaper, but not all of it.

If you want to find the people who are screwing you, stop looking in the ghetto and the rural backwoods. It just isn't the case.
Disability is the new welfare. Even kids can get on it. ADHD, Bipolar, heck virtually any complaint a doc/shrink can dream up can get you signed off if you find somebody that will work the system for you. Never in history has it been so easy for able bodied folks to be declared disabled and w/o the stigma of welfare.

Working the system has become a new career choice for many. Gone are the days when people had too much pride to take handouts. I have actually heard women brag about new ways to get freebees and coach others on how to do the same. Heck ,we now have government agencies that will help find loopholes for those who don't quite qualify. Today's generation has little desire to work their way into a better place in life when they can do pretty good just sitting around being a victim. Everybody in the system knows exactly where the cut off is for that earned income tax credit and working their way out of it is unthinkable to most.

The same political faction that supposedly champions the poor has pushed policies that have caused fuel to more than double in the last 5-6 years. Not only does that take money straight out of the pockets of the poor, it increases the costs of everything we use. Cost of fuel directly impacts the costs of everything we use. We need fuel for farming, construction, transporting everything, getting to work, emergency services, etc. Anything you can think of costs more as oil goes up. But heck, the middle east loves it. Oh, and the cost of utilities too. No other thing has such a negative affect on the poor as high fuel prices. Yet our president has done everything possible to jack up oil prices during his time in office. We need to quit listening to what politicians say and pay more attention to what they do.
 
I was paying 657 a month for blue cross blue. Shield of alabama, for My wife and I and 2 Of our 4 kids. It jumped to 1157 a month .
Dropped both of them they no longer live at home and still pay 788 a month for health and 80 for dental.
Shit sucks
 
Dundee. I wasn't defending insurance companies. I don't like them either. I was simply stating the law requires the insurance companies to pay 80% loss ratios. That is going to drive premiums. Don't think for a second if the government were running the entire system they wouldn't be pushing generic drugs. The problem is going to be cost of care going forward. That will drive premiums most. If they don't figure out a way to control it the system will ultimately implode. There will be a breaking point where people say, "I've had it. I am not paying anymore." By the way, I have a friend that takes a brand name injection daily that literally costs $6000 per month without insurance. She pays a $15 co-pay with insurance. Now on what planet does it make it okay to charge an insurance company or anyone $6000 a month for a drug? There is plenty of blame to go around and a lot of reasons our system will not be like Canada/France/UK etc.

1. Our lifestyle. Too much processed bad food and way too large portions. No moderation. Obesity, diabetes, heart disease, etc. We pretty much lead the world in these categories and they are increasingly expensive to treat and place a lot of strain on our healthcare system.
2. In the countries with "socialized medicine" a very high majority (probably in the 90 percentile or higher) pay into the system in the form of income tax. In our country roughly half the population pays NO income tax. Where does the extra money come from? We want all these thing but no one wants to pay for it. It's a different mindset than other countries.
3. Most developed countries make it illegal to pass on the research and development of a drug to the consumer. In the US this is legal and as a consequence we pay much higher costs for drugs that were developed here but shared with the entire world. We bear nearly the entire research and development costs.
4. We are the only country in the world with rich doctors, even wealthy doctors. Doctors do well in many countries but if they want to really make some coin, they come here. Most doctors are going to have to take a pay cut or take early retirement. I think that is coming.
5. Every piece of our system is for profit and all fighting over the same dollar. Hospitals, Dr.s, insurance, pharmaceutical, medical devices and so on
6. Way too much fraud and its not just Medicare. Inflated bills, bogus charges, etc.
7. Malpractice lawsuits. Again, not much of a problem in most other countries. You either can't sue or if you do and lose - YOU PAY. That will stop a lot of nonsense. The point is "socialized medicine" doesn't really have to deal with this.
8. A doctor could easily be $400,000 in debt right out of school. With the reimbursement rates being cut, it will take a Dr. a long time to dig out of that debit. Who will even want to be a doctor? We will probably start importing A LOT of them in very short order. Maybe if they make it through Medical School we should waive the debit or a big part of it. At least it would be an investment.

Just wait until the employer mandate finally kicks in. There is a reason why they have delayed it twice already (until 2015). Funny how they can take pieces of the law and pick and choose which parts to follow and which ones to delay. I didn't know law worked that way. At any rate, when the employer mandate kicks in, you will see hundreds of thousands of people reduced to 29 hours or changed to a 1099 status so the employer avoids the mandate. We are going to have a massive portion of the workforce that has 2 part time jobs, working full time hours and with no health insurance. Some because the employer is greedy and some because the employer risks putting himself/herself out of business if they abide by the law. The bottom line is this is the law of the land and it is what it is. Some people will think its great and others not so much. I just hope we can come together and fix it because it is far more messed up than people realize right now.
 
last points from me. my cousin lives in Toronto. needed an MRI and had to wait several weeks, then wait again for surgery. ended up having surgery done at his own expense in NYC. he was told by the doctor there if he waited much longer the damage to his knee would have been a lot worse and he would have needed a knee replacement. nice socialized medicine. its great for routine stuff but the bigger the problem the more cumbersome it can be. a giant HMO

on a side note, there were more MRIs done in Detroit Michigan last year than the entire country of Canada. Detroit isn't the shining example of the US healthcare system so I suspect a lot of these MRIs were Canadians crossing the border.

One of the fastest growing industries in Europe? Privatized medicine. Hmmmm
 
our medical schools/colleges would love for the Government (which has no freaking money) to pay all the medical school bills of graduating doctors.

People complain about medical coast but hardly ever complain about the skyrocketing cost of education

Think a lot of these fat , lazy professors are working for NO PROFIT to themselves?
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Originally posted by President_Camacho:
No cap on benefits? Seriously??? You will only get surgeries and procedures that are deemed cost effective. That means the next time you get an artificial hip, it will be the cheaply made version. Plus your surgeon will not be choosing your surgery, the insurance company will be. Furthermore, insurance companies will always find a way NOT pay. Obamacare does nothing to change that. Its all a big scam. I know because I work in it.
WHAA! Love it or leave it Camacho.
 
You nailed it, rzrbk7777...

My wife is a pharma rep. If a drug company wants to stay in business, they have to make enough profit off of 1 drug to pay for the 10 that the FDA would not approve, and the 90 that didn't make it out of R&D. To top it off, that profit has to be made during a short 7 years before the patent expires and the drug goes generic. After that, they have to pay for the boat load of lawsuits from the "lawsuit lottery" crowd (have you noticed in the last 5 years the proliferation of law firms advertising on tv constantly trying to drum up business for anyone using ANY popular drug?). That is where the real waste and abuse is.. in the legal system. Any reform to the health care system should have included tort reform. It is baffling.

Our family coverage rate has gone up for less quality of coverage every year for the last 4 also, Trey. Add to it that we now have to pay $300 a month in "cadillac health care plan tax" and it really sucks.
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This post was edited on 3/1 8:09 PM by East Memphis Hog
 
Aside from dropping a bunch of racial slurs, what can I do to get this thread killed/sent to the grim bottom?
 
Wow! So I post that Coach Anderson is like Obama and my post gets deleted. I made a comparison of Mike winning and Obama winning a second term and some on this board got aroused like I spiked their drink with cialis or Viagra. You mention healthcare knowing some would start the Obama blame game. How fair is that? Not acusing you of deleting my post, but someone did.
 
Originally posted by Amare06:
So my Mike comparison to Obama thread gets deleted.
Sometimes things get deleted because of stupidity rather than politics.
 
Originally posted by Amare06:
Stupid is when you look in the mirror.
I'm sorry your attempt to flame the board didn't work. I really am. Quit bitching about it.
 
Originally posted by torin_dds:
What do you think will happen when it becomes law that you must have insurance. All the premiums go up and what they pay for things go down. If it was mandatory for every one to go to the dentist I could charge whatever I wanted and you would have to pay it. I disagree with the whole ObamaCare and also don't understand why you want to punish people for being successful. I guess the new American dream is to have 3 kids at 18 and live off the Government for ever. I see people paying for food with their food stamps and then push their buggy to a brand new Escalade. Just makes no sense.
Not with the 10% profit max. That prevents what you are describing.

All of this was considered when the Heritage Foundation came up with the plan in 1992.
This post was edited on 3/1 8:36 PM by ermackey
 
I learned here that people in Arkansas are backwards for not supporting Obamacare

Blanche Lincoln learned this and Mark Pryor may soon learn this

I had to come here to learn this
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Originally posted by ohlordy:
I learned here that people in Arkansas are backwards for not supporting Obamacare

Blanche Lincoln learned this and Mark Pryor may soon learn this

I had to come here to learn this
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Good riddence to both. Pryor is not his daddy and both are more Republican than Democrat anyway.
 
Ermackey, what do you think happens when you add 50 million people to the insurance game plus you raise premiums a shit load? Ummm, you make a crap load more money. There may be a 10% cap on profit but there are ways around that. I promise you that these companies already have that figured out.
 
Originally posted by torin_dds:
Ermackey, what do you think happens when you add 50 million people to the insurance game plus you raise premiums a shit load? Ummm, you make a crap load more money. There may be a 10% cap on profit but there are ways around that. I promise you that these companies already have that figured out.
With so many being added, there are no actuarials. At the end of the year, the companies have to refund any money to the members over the 10%. Already happens in most states and I got my check for last year right after the new year, Alaska has had the requirement for 50 years, so we are use to it.
 
What is silly is the idea that insurance should be a one size fits all deal. No healthy 26 year old needs the same coverage I do. This is an ill-conceived piece of legislation where it the godsend some of the deluded seem to think it is I'd have to ask why the President has felt the need to modify the plan multiples times via executive order and why huge portions keep getting delayed? My first guess would be the political ramifications, let's move implementation past the next election to do the least amount of harm. You kids are in for a rude awakening in the next few years and see the number of doctors, nurses and hospitals shrink and the quality of care diminish. It will great to have insurance, now find someplace to use it. I'm done it is clear most have not done their research on ACA
 
ranked 35th by whom? WHO? Do you have any idea now they arrive at their numbers? Let's take infant mortality rates where it looks like we do poorly. We don't, our advanced techniques allow us to save more babies than most likely any country in the civilized world. Other countries simply give up on the babies and let them die. Our survival rates for virtually every type of cancer are higher than most anywhere else in the world. Disinformation will remain disinformation. Note that WHO's report was such they declined to repeat it in 2010 also note the countries ranked ahead of us, most are the size of Rhode Island

health care ranking
 
So many inaccuracies in this thread.

1. Fuel costs

Natural gas production is at it's highest level ever, FALLING energy costs are the primary driver behind the first expansion in the manufacturing base since the mid 90's. Increased fuel costs at the pump reflect instability in the Middle East and higher demand from poor Asian counties expanding their consumption as their populations move into the middle class. We still have the lowest fuel costs of any rich country.

2. Disability rates

Have not risen at all when adjusted for population age. The only arguable increase in people "working the system" is the long term unemployed. There are excellent arguments to be made that this long term unemployment coverage increases the unemployment rate, but it should also be noted that this type of spending generates more Economic growth than any other type of spending. About $2.3 of economic activity for every dollar of spending.

3. You can argue whether maternity coverage should be covered by all health insurance plans, but don't act like young women aren't paying for a bunch of benefits they don't need. And frankly that phenomenon cuts both ways and mostly in your benefit, if every young person didn't get coverage for things they were unlikely to need your insurance would be unaffordable. And for that matter why should my check have something taken out to support your social security and Medicare when you opt in a few years.... I'm not retired why should I pay for you old freeloaders living off the system.

The Good Point

The absolutely should have done something about costs at the same time they did insurance reform. That is the major issue here .... period.

If anyone is curious that probably involved several more communist plots being visited on the American people.

1. Fees being paid per patient vs per procedure.

2. Some sort of tort reform that probably involves government subsidies similar to flood insurance, and an arbitration mechanism for legitimate claims

3. Reform of the FDA clearance system. Tort protection for new drugs based on bulk purchase agreements and public interest designations. It needs to be as profitable to cure diabetics and cancer patients as it is to give me an 8 hr hardon.

4. Greater controls over the price of medical school, and higher education in general, and making it easier for nurse practitioners to run independent primary care practices.

5. A more stringent set of guidelines for hospitals seeking designation as non profit entities.
 
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