Hatred

[floridahog]

 

[BOSSHOGFREE]

Originally posted by floridahog:

I havent see anyone here say anything to the contrary. The vast majority of the world believs this statement to be true

 

[floridahog]

Originally posted by BOSSHOGFREE:

Originally posted by floridahog:

I havent see anyone here say anything to the contrary. The vast majority of the world believs this statement to be true

and for this there is always hope..

 

[terrylsar]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-gZ25MYwWpM&feature=player_detailpage

 

[BOSSHOGFREE]

Originally posted by floridahog:

Originally posted by BOSSHOGFREE:

Originally pis sted by floridahog:

I havent see anyone here say anything to the contrary. The vast majority of the world believs this statement to be true

and for this there is always hope..

Now and forever these three thing remain: faith, hope, and love. But the greatest is love. 1 Corinthians 13:13

 

[President_Camacho]

Originally posted by WMFC:

Originally posted by BOSSHOGFREE:

God commands us to love all sinners and that all sin is equal.

Too bad most people don't follow this...

Its a good thing (according to most) that you Christians don't follow this one too:

"If a man lies with a male as with a women, both of them shall be put to
death for their abominable deed; they have forfeited their lives."
(Leviticus 20:13 NAB)

In fact, I find you Christians only follow the verses from the Bible that serve your purposes at the time.

 

[President_Camacho]

Originally posted by BOSSHOGFREE:

Originally posted by HendrixHog:
Ok thanks for clarifying boss. That is where I suspected you were going with that.

Truth is a tricky word. If I said "Lou Holtz is the best coach we ever had and thats the truth." It might very well be the case. I may believe it in my heart so what I am saying is true to me. But saying it doesn't necessarily make it true. Even though it very well could be. But I have faith that it is true. my faith does not make it true.

I also would probably disagree with who the founders are and what their Jesus-like intent were. Unless you refer only to the 17th century settlers of some religious beliefs. Which if so, that is cool. But if you mean any founders as European shippers, traders or mass land owner types that had ANYthing to do with COMMERCE, then that seems to rule out Jesus from the jump. Most things commerce do not equal the teachings of Jesus as I understand them. But I don't know for sure.

But thats just me - I do think the two can coexist (Christianity and Economy). I just balk at a Jesus-principled roots of a country. That has always insulted the idea of Jesus to me. To each his own.

Our nation in not founded on Christianity alone but it is founded on the principals of Christianity that have no historical equal. The idea that each man is endowed by the natural rights of freedom given to us by God that no man can take away had no equal throughout the history of nations. There is a massive difference between a religious state and a state that used a religion to build its fundamentals. My wife who is a history major (specifically early US history). Yes, it is the truth that not only was the country setteled by Christian based people seeking asylum as well our founders used the religions principals to mold our world changing core beliefs. This is fact. I understand that may not sit well with you and thats ok but it is the truth. Conjecture doesnt change history. The use of the word God is very telling. Befofe the Jewish religion came to be known there was no wide stream understanding of a singulard God and then ALL new religions held that principal. A singular God is biblical and in the time of the founders written in English it is all but certainly a reference to a Christian God. Even so the just a in the Bible free will is given to the people in our nation. The same freedom of will and choice Given by God can be used to denounce him.

most non Christians refuse to see that part of Christianity. The teachings of Christ have been labeled as hate speech and it could not be further from the truth. There is in fact a direct connection between the teachings of Christ that were historically ground breaking and our nations founding pricipals.

That's not accurate. This country was founded by some people who were not Christians and most considered religion as a detriment. It is only in the last 80 years that this country has turned more religious. "Lighthouses are more helpful than churches." - Ben Franklin

As for the historical principles of Christianity they are filled with murder, genocide, homophobia and slavery. But most Christians know very little about their Bible. If they did they would know that the supposed flawless book has over 300 direct contradictions and errors. Why would you base your life on a book with so many flaws? Go study your bible. I did, and now I'm an Atheist.

This post was edited on 5/14 10:53 AM by President_Camacho

 

[LaHoggaNostra]

Had a good civil thread going and it gets derailed by a hater. Sad
Posted from wireless.rivals.com[/URL]

 

[President_Camacho]

Originally posted by LaHoggaNostra:
Had a good civil thread going and it gets derailed by a hater. Sad
Posted from wireless.rivals.com

Facts are tough to take sometimes. Don't let them get in the way of your faith, whatever you do.

 

[BOSSHOGFREE]

Originally posted by LaHoggaNostra:
Had a good civil thread going and it gets derailed by a hater. Sad
Posted from wireless.rivals.com

Agreed. As to some of the points made God sent his one and only son to create a new covenant with man. The son of God gave us a new mission in life. He did not throw away the old commandments but fullfilled their proclimation of his coming. Jesus preached forgiveness and love above judgement and condemnation. Sure there are many contraditions from the old to the bew testament...... because God wanted us to know we had failed him and without his intervention we were hopeless. Even Moses stood on the other side of the abyss waiting for Jesus to take on his sin. It isnt hard to see when one wants to the whys and the hows of the differences. They are supposed to be there withouthem there is nothing left for us to aspire to.

We have all fallen short of the glory of God but I write these things so that all may know they any who believe and follow Christ will have their rewerd in heaven. If you understand that he is speeking to a large group of former Jews and gentiles who were beholden to the old law it easily clears up most of the rant above.

 

[lsmhog]

Ben Franklin, along with George Washington, James Monroe, John Hancock, Paul Revere, and several other of the founding fathers were freemasons, and as such claimed belief in a Supreme Being. So, to say that Franklin wasn't religious is a bit of a stretch. He may not have had much need for organized religion (nor do I), but he most certainly believed in a one true God.

Manly P. Hall's "The Secret Destiny of America" is a fascinating book on the founding of America and the freemasons role which I have attached a link too for any interested.

The Secret Destiny of America

 

[BOSSHOGFREE]

Originally posted by lsmhog:
Ben Franklin, along with George Washington, James Monroe, John Hancock, Paul Revere, and several other of the founding fathers were freemasons, and as such claimed belief in a Supreme Being. So, to say that Franklin wasn't religious is a bit of a stretch. He may not have had much need for organized religion (nor do I), but he most certainly believed in a one true God.

Manly P. Hall's "The Secret Destiny of America" is a fascinating book on the founding of America and the freemasons role which I have attached a link too for any interested.

This is true and contrary to popular belief or theology Christianity does not call for a singular organized church. It does call for us to meet together, care for one another, do good in the name of the lord, and to set aside for those who dedicate their lives to God as well as thise in need. There is no found structure outside of the naming of local elders to advise and guide the people. Nkw a building is the "church" the Christian church is the people itself. Original Christians meet in tents, hidden locations, etc in fear of death. So the view of what the corrupted church was and what it should be is the basis of many secret groups. Hence the vile hatred by any major organized church. Its also why JFK was the first Cathiloc president. Many feared of historically organized religions thag may have on the presidency.

Any church that doesnt disclose their assets and spending IMO are not to be trusted. It belongs to God not a single leader of the group.

 

[terrylsar]

Anyone that says this country was not founded on the principles of Christianity is absolutely wrong. A person can take single sentences or quotes from anyone and make any claim the want to support their opinion. If you REALLY want to understand the founding of this country, the Constitution, the Bill of Rights, you need to study John Locke, read the letters the founding fathers wrote to one another, read their memoirs, and then it is possible to get a true big picture of their thoughts, ideas, and direction.

 

[nehog]

Here is the winner right here. Whether it is LGBT, Race, religion or whatever, the media keeps pushing the issue. Ask yourself, why is ESPN still running segments about Sam?

 

[BOSSHOGFREE]

Originally posted by terrylsar:

Anyone that says this country was not founded on the principles of Christianity is absolutely wrong. A person can take single sentences or quotes from anyone and make any claim the want to support their opinion. If you REALLY want to understand the founding of this country, the Constitution, the Bill of Rights, you need to study John Locke, read the letters the founding fathers wrote to one another, read their memoirs, and then it is possible to get a true big picture of their thoughts, ideas, and direction.

It is simply amazing how anyone does not know this. Its only the founding of the greatest nation known to the history of mankind yet it really isnt even tought anymore due to political correctness. Funny hkw the same religion that inspired true freedom is now seen to be oppressive by the ill-informed.

 

[President_Camacho]

Originally posted by BOSSHOGFREE:

Originally posted by LaHoggaNostra:
Had a good civil thread going and it gets derailed by a hater. Sad
Posted from wireless.rivals.com

Agreed. As to some of the points made God sent his one and only son to create a new covenant with man. The son of God gave us a new mission in life. He did not throw away the old commandments but fullfilled their proclimation of his coming. Jesus preached forgiveness and love above judgement and condemnation. Sure there are many contraditions from the old to the bew testament...... because God wanted us to know we had failed him and without his intervention we were hopeless. Even Moses stood on the other side of the abyss waiting for Jesus to take on his sin. It isnt hard to see when one wants to the whys and the hows of the differences. They are supposed to be there withouthem there is nothing left for us to aspire to.

We have all fallen short of the glory of God but I write these things so that all may know they any who believe and follow Christ will have their rewerd in heaven. If you understand that he is speeking to a large group of former Jews and gentiles who were beholden to the old law it easily clears up most of the rant above.

Tell me something Boss, do you even know who wrote the New Testament? Do you know when it was written? You have attempted to dismiss my "rant" with the words spoon fed to you by your preacher and other talking heads. I hear so many Christians now a days claim that the Old Testament is defunct for Jesus was the "lamb" to clear away its rules and regulations. This is just another scapegoat that Christians use to ignore the atrocities and bizarre laws commanded by their God. Their preachers spoon feed them that the Old Testament is no longer binding so that they can excuse the majority of evil that the bible promotes. I am so tired of Christians manipulating the scriptures so that they can assign a kinder nature to their God, that I have assembled a BRIEF list of verses which clearly show that the Old Testament is not to be ignored. Its laws should indeed be adhered to, for the New Testament demands it!

Bible contradicts itself concerning other laws.

1) "For truly, I say to you,
till heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot, will pass the law until all is accomplished. Whoever then relaxes one of the least of these commandments and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven;
but he who does them and teaches them shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven." (Matthew 5:18-19 RSV) Clearly the Old Testament is to be abided by until the end of human existence itself. None other then Jesus said so.

2) All of the vicious Old Testament laws will be binding forever. "It is easier for Heaven and Earth to pass away than for the smallest part of the letter of the law to become invalid." (Luke 16:17 NAB)

3) Jesus strongly approves of the law and the prophets. He hasn't the slightest objection to the cruelties of the Old Testament. "Do not think that I have come to abolish the law or the prophets. I have come not to abolish but to fulfill. Amen, I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest part or the smallest part of a letter will pass from the law, until all things have taken place." (Matthew 5:17 NAB)

3b) "All scripture is
inspired by God and is useful for teaching, for refutation, for correction,
and for training in righteousness..." (2 Timothy 3:16 NAB)

3c) "Know this first of all, that there is no prophecy of scripture that is a matter of personal interpretation, for no prophecy ever came through human will; but rather human beings moved by the holy Spirit spoke under the influence of God." (2 Peter 20-21 NAB)

4) Jesus criticizes the Jews for not killing their disobedient children according to Old Testament law. Mark.7:9-13 "Whoever curses father or mother shall die" (Mark 7:10 NAB)

5) Jesus is criticized by the Pharisees for not washing his hands before eating. He defends himself by attacking them for not killing disobedient children according to the commandment: "He that curseth father or mother, let him die the death." (Matthew 15:4-7)

6) Jesus has a punishment even worse than his father concerning adultery: God said the act of adultery was punishable by death. Jesus says looking with lust is the same thing and you should gouge your eye out, better a part, than the whole. The punishment under Jesus is an eternity in Hell. (Matthew 5:27)

7) Peter says that all slaves should "be subject to [their] masters with all fear," to the bad and cruel as well as the "good and gentle." This is merely an echo of the same slavery commands in the Old Testament. 1 Peter 2:18

8) "Did not Moses give you the law, and yet none of you keepeth the law" (John7:19) and "For the law was given by Moses,..." (John 1:17).

9) "...the scripture cannot be broken." --Jesus Christ, John 10:35



This post was edited on 5/14 2:08 PM by President_Camacho

 

[Ole Hambone]

Originally posted by President_Camacho:

Originally posted by BOSSHOGFREE:

Originally posted by LaHoggaNostra:
Had a good civil thread going and it gets derailed by a hater. Sad

Posted from wireless.rivals.com

Agreed. As to some of the points made God sent his one and only son to create a new covenant with man. The son of God gave us a new mission in life. He did not throw away the old commandments but fullfilled their proclimation of his coming. Jesus preached forgiveness and love above judgement and condemnation. Sure there are many contraditions from the old to the bew testament...... because God wanted us to know we had failed him and without his intervention we were hopeless. Even Moses stood on the other side of the abyss waiting for Jesus to take on his sin. It isnt hard to see when one wants to the whys and the hows of the differences. They are supposed to be there withouthem there is nothing left for us to aspire to.

We have all fallen short of the glory of God but I write these things so that all may know they any who believe and follow Christ will have their rewerd in heaven. If you understand that he is speeking to a large group of former Jews and gentiles who were beholden to the old law it easily clears up most of the rant above.

Tell me something Boss, do you even know who wrote the New Testament? Do you know when it was written? You have attempted to dismiss my "rant" with the words spoon fed to you by your preacher and other talking heads. I hear so many Christians now a days claim that the Old Testament is defunct for Jesus was the "lamb" to clear away its rules and regulations. This is just another scapegoat that Christians use to ignore the atrocities and bizarre laws commanded by their God. Their preachers spoon feed them that the Old Testament is no longer binding so that they can excuse the majority of evil that the bible promotes. I am so tired of Christians manipulating the scriptures so that they can assign a kinder nature to their God, that I have assembled a BRIEF list of verses which clearly show that the Old Testament is not to be ignored. Its laws should indeed be adhered to, for the New Testament demands it!

Bible contradicts itself concerning other laws.


1) "For truly, I say to you,
till heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot, will pass the law until all is accomplished. Whoever then relaxes one of the least of these commandments and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven;
but he who does them and teaches them shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven." (Matthew 5:18-19 RSV) Clearly the Old Testament is to be abided by until the end of human existence itself. None other then Jesus said so.

2) All of the vicious Old Testament laws will be binding forever. "It is easier for Heaven and Earth to pass away than for the smallest part of the letter of the law to become invalid." (Luke 16:17 NAB)

3) Jesus strongly approves of the law and the prophets. He hasn't the slightest objection to the cruelties of the Old Testament. "Do not think that I have come to abolish the law or the prophets. I have come not to abolish but to fulfill. Amen, I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest part or the smallest part of a letter will pass from the law, until all things have taken place." (Matthew 5:17 NAB)

3b) "All scripture is
inspired by God and is useful for teaching, for refutation, for correction,
and for training in righteousness..." (2 Timothy 3:16 NAB)

3c) "Know this first of all, that there is no prophecy of scripture that is a matter of personal interpretation, for no prophecy ever came through human will; but rather human beings moved by the holy Spirit spoke under the influence of God." (2 Peter 20-21 NAB)

4) Jesus criticizes the Jews for not killing their disobedient children according to Old Testament law. Mark.7:9-13 "Whoever curses father or mother shall die" (Mark 7:10 NAB)

5) Jesus is criticized by the Pharisees for not washing his hands before eating. He defends himself by attacking them for not killing disobedient children according to the commandment: "He that curseth father or mother, let him die the death." (Matthew 15:4-7)

6) Jesus has a punishment even worse than his father concerning adultery: God said the act of adultery was punishable by death. Jesus says looking with lust is the same thing and you should gouge your eye out, better a part, than the whole. The punishment under Jesus is an eternity in Hell. (Matthew 5:27)

7) Peter says that all slaves should "be subject to [their] masters with all fear," to the bad and cruel as well as the "good and gentle." This is merely an echo of the same slavery commands in the Old Testament. 1 Peter 2:18

8) "Did not Moses give you the law, and yet none of you keepeth the law" (John7:19) and "For the law was given by Moses,..." (John 1:17).

9) "...the scripture cannot be broken." --Jesus Christ, John 10:35



This post was edited on 5/14 2:08 PM by President_Camacho

Jesus dying on the cross changed everything... Created a new covenant,.

 

[President_Camacho]

Originally posted by BOSSHOGFREE:

Originally posted by terrylsar:

Anyone that says this country was not founded on the principles of Christianity is absolutely wrong. A person can take single sentences or quotes from anyone and make any claim the want to support their opinion. If you REALLY want to understand the founding of this country, the Constitution, the Bill of Rights, you need to study John Locke, read the letters the founding fathers wrote to one another, read their memoirs, and then it is possible to get a true big picture of their thoughts, ideas, and direction.

It is simply amazing how anyone does not know this. Its only the founding of the greatest nation known to the history of mankind yet it really isnt even tought anymore due to political correctness. Funny hkw the same religion that inspired true freedom is now seen to be oppressive by the ill-informed.

What's simply amazing to me is that you people have this Polly Anna view of Christianity. Christianity is responsible for the slaughter of millions of people throughout history. The phrase "kill them all and let God sort them out" came from Arnaud Amalric, a leader in the Crusades. Christianity has been used to control, enslave and subjugate people. What's amazing to me is how you go around with all this moral authority and in the same breath demand homosexuals be made second class citizens.

 

[Ole Hambone]

Originally posted by President_Camacho:

Originally posted by BOSSHOGFREE:

Originally posted by terrylsar:

Anyone that says this country was not founded on the principles of Christianity is absolutely wrong. A person can take single sentences or quotes from anyone and make any claim the want to support their opinion. If you REALLY want to understand the founding of this country, the Constitution, the Bill of Rights, you need to study John Locke, read the letters the founding fathers wrote to one another, read their memoirs, and then it is possible to get a true big picture of their thoughts, ideas, and direction.

It is simply amazing how anyone does not know this. Its only the founding of the greatest nation known to the history of mankind yet it really isnt even tought anymore due to political correctness. Funny hkw the same religion that inspired true freedom is now seen to be oppressive by the ill-informed.

What's simply amazing to me is that you people have this Polly Anna view of Christianity. Christianity is responsible for the slaughter of millions of people throughout history. The phrase "kill them all and let God sort them out" came from Arnaud Amalric, a leader in the Crusades. Christianity has been used to control, enslave and subjugate people. What's amazing to me is how you go around with all this moral authority and in the same breath demand homosexuals be made second class citizens.

How many people died in the crusades? Can you give me some examples of Christians killing others in the name of Christ?

Who has been enslaved in the name of Christianity?

Gay marriage isn't about equal rights. That can be achieved by civil unions. Hate the sin.. love the sinner.

 

[grobertson]

This post was edited on 5/14 3:12 PM by grobertson

 

[President_Camacho]

Originally posted by original hambone:

Originally posted by President_Camacho:

Originally posted by BOSSHOGFREE:

Originally posted by terrylsar:

Anyone that says this country was not founded on the principles of Christianity is absolutely wrong. A person can take single sentences or quotes from anyone and make any claim the want to support their opinion. If you REALLY want to understand the founding of this country, the Constitution, the Bill of Rights, you need to study John Locke, read the letters the founding fathers wrote to one another, read their memoirs, and then it is possible to get a true big picture of their thoughts, ideas, and direction.

It is simply amazing how anyone does not know this. Its only the founding of the greatest nation known to the history of mankind yet it really isnt even tought anymore due to political correctness. Funny hkw the same religion that inspired true freedom is now seen to be oppressive by the ill-informed.

What's simply amazing to me is that you people have this Polly Anna view of Christianity. Christianity is responsible for the slaughter of millions of people throughout history. The phrase "kill them all and let God sort them out" came from Arnaud Amalric, a leader in the Crusades. Christianity has been used to control, enslave and subjugate people. What's amazing to me is how you go around with all this moral authority and in the same breath demand homosexuals be made second class citizens.

How many people died in the crusades? Can you give me some examples of Christians killing others in the name of Christ?

Who has been enslaved in the name of Christianity?

Gay marriage isn't about equal rights. That can be achieved by civil unions. Hate the sin.. love the sinner.

The crusades killed millions by most historians. Estimates vary from 500K to 1.5M. Here's a conservative accounting:
Crusades (1095-1291)

Estimated totals:

Wertham: 1,000,000

Charles Mackay, Memoirs of Extraordinary Popular Delusions and the Madness of Crowds (1841): 2,000,000 Europeans killed. []http://www.bootlegbooks.com/NonFiction/M...

Aletheia, The Rationalist's Manual: 5,000,000

Individual Events:

Davies: Crusaders killed up to 8,000 Jews in Rhineland

Paul Johnson A History of the Jews (1987): 1,000 Jewish women in Rhineland comm. suicide to avoid the mob, 1096.

Gibbon, Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire, v.5, 6

1st Crusade: 300,000 Eur. k at Battle of Nice [Nicea].

Crusaders vs. Solimon of Roum: 4,000 Christians, 3,000 Moslims

1098, Fall of Antioch: 100,000 Muslims massacred.

50,000 Pilgrims died of disease.

1099, Fall of Jerusalem: 70,000 Muslims massacred.

Siege of Tiberias: 30,000 Christians k.

Siege of Tyre: 1,000 Turks

Richard the Lionhearted executes 3,000 MuslimPOWs.

1291: 100,000 Christians k after fall of Acre.

Fall of Christian Antioch: 17,000 massacred.

TOTAL: 677,000 listed in these episodes here.


Slavery:

The bible was used to justify slavery in this country. South African apartheid used this as its basis:

However, you may purchase male or female slaves from
among the foreigners who live among you. You may also purchase the children of
such resident foreigners, including those who have been born in your land. You
may treat them as your property, passing them on to your children as a permanent
inheritance. You may treat your slaves like this, but the people of Israel,
your relatives, must never be treated this way. (Leviticus 25:44-46 NLT)

As far as gay marriage goes, its pure and simple bigotry to deny a certain group of people equal rights. Marriage is a right of all adults.

 

[President_Camacho]

Originally posted by original hambone:

Originally posted by President_Camacho:

Originally posted by BOSSHOGFREE:

Originally posted by LaHoggaNostra:
Had a good civil thread going and it gets derailed by a hater. Sad

Posted from wireless.rivals.com

Agreed. As to some of the points made God sent his one and only son to create a new covenant with man. The son of God gave us a new mission in life. He did not throw away the old commandments but fullfilled their proclimation of his coming. Jesus preached forgiveness and love above judgement and condemnation. Sure there are many contraditions from the old to the bew testament...... because God wanted us to know we had failed him and without his intervention we were hopeless. Even Moses stood on the other side of the abyss waiting for Jesus to take on his sin. It isnt hard to see when one wants to the whys and the hows of the differences. They are supposed to be there withouthem there is nothing left for us to aspire to.

We have all fallen short of the glory of God but I write these things so that all may know they any who believe and follow Christ will have their rewerd in heaven. If you understand that he is speeking to a large group of former Jews and gentiles who were beholden to the old law it easily clears up most of the rant above.

Tell me something Boss, do you even know who wrote the New Testament? Do you know when it was written? You have attempted to dismiss my "rant" with the words spoon fed to you by your preacher and other talking heads. I hear so many Christians now a days claim that the Old Testament is defunct for Jesus was the "lamb" to clear away its rules and regulations. This is just another scapegoat that Christians use to ignore the atrocities and bizarre laws commanded by their God. Their preachers spoon feed them that the Old Testament is no longer binding so that they can excuse the majority of evil that the bible promotes. I am so tired of Christians manipulating the scriptures so that they can assign a kinder nature to their God, that I have assembled a BRIEF list of verses which clearly show that the Old Testament is not to be ignored. Its laws should indeed be adhered to, for the New Testament demands it!

Bible contradicts itself concerning other laws.


1) "For truly, I say to you,
till heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot, will pass the law until all is accomplished. Whoever then relaxes one of the least of these commandments and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven;
but he who does them and teaches them shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven." (Matthew 5:18-19 RSV) Clearly the Old Testament is to be abided by until the end of human existence itself. None other then Jesus said so.

2) All of the vicious Old Testament laws will be binding forever. "It is easier for Heaven and Earth to pass away than for the smallest part of the letter of the law to become invalid." (Luke 16:17 NAB)

3) Jesus strongly approves of the law and the prophets. He hasn't the slightest objection to the cruelties of the Old Testament. "Do not think that I have come to abolish the law or the prophets. I have come not to abolish but to fulfill. Amen, I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest part or the smallest part of a letter will pass from the law, until all things have taken place." (Matthew 5:17 NAB)

3b) "All scripture is
inspired by God and is useful for teaching, for refutation, for correction,
and for training in righteousness..." (2 Timothy 3:16 NAB)

3c) "Know this first of all, that there is no prophecy of scripture that is a matter of personal interpretation, for no prophecy ever came through human will; but rather human beings moved by the holy Spirit spoke under the influence of God." (2 Peter 20-21 NAB)

4) Jesus criticizes the Jews for not killing their disobedient children according to Old Testament law. Mark.7:9-13 "Whoever curses father or mother shall die" (Mark 7:10 NAB)

5) Jesus is criticized by the Pharisees for not washing his hands before eating. He defends himself by attacking them for not killing disobedient children according to the commandment: "He that curseth father or mother, let him die the death." (Matthew 15:4-7)

6) Jesus has a punishment even worse than his father concerning adultery: God said the act of adultery was punishable by death. Jesus says looking with lust is the same thing and you should gouge your eye out, better a part, than the whole. The punishment under Jesus is an eternity in Hell. (Matthew 5:27)

7) Peter says that all slaves should "be subject to [their] masters with all fear," to the bad and cruel as well as the "good and gentle." This is merely an echo of the same slavery commands in the Old Testament. 1 Peter 2:18

8) "Did not Moses give you the law, and yet none of you keepeth the law" (John7:19) and "For the law was given by Moses,..." (John 1:17).

9) "...the scripture cannot be broken." --Jesus Christ, John 10:35


This post was edited on 5/14 2:08 PM by President_Camacho

Jesus dying on the cross changed everything... Created a new covenant,.

Can you provide the Bible verse that says the new covenant voided all the Old Testament?

 

[Ole Hambone]

Originally posted by President_Camacho:

Originally posted by original hambone:

Originally posted by President_Camacho:

Originally posted by BOSSHOGFREE:

Originally posted by LaHoggaNostra:
Had a good civil thread going and it gets derailed by a hater. Sad


Posted from wireless.rivals.com

Agreed. As to some of the points made God sent his one and only son to create a new covenant with man. The son of God gave us a new mission in life. He did not throw away the old commandments but fullfilled their proclimation of his coming. Jesus preached forgiveness and love above judgement and condemnation. Sure there are many contraditions from the old to the bew testament...... because God wanted us to know we had failed him and without his intervention we were hopeless. Even Moses stood on the other side of the abyss waiting for Jesus to take on his sin. It isnt hard to see when one wants to the whys and the hows of the differences. They are supposed to be there withouthem there is nothing left for us to aspire to.

We have all fallen short of the glory of God but I write these things so that all may know they any who believe and follow Christ will have their rewerd in heaven. If you understand that he is speeking to a large group of former Jews and gentiles who were beholden to the old law it easily clears up most of the rant above.

Tell me something Boss, do you even know who wrote the New Testament? Do you know when it was written? You have attempted to dismiss my "rant" with the words spoon fed to you by your preacher and other talking heads. I hear so many Christians now a days claim that the Old Testament is defunct for Jesus was the "lamb" to clear away its rules and regulations. This is just another scapegoat that Christians use to ignore the atrocities and bizarre laws commanded by their God. Their preachers spoon feed them that the Old Testament is no longer binding so that they can excuse the majority of evil that the bible promotes. I am so tired of Christians manipulating the scriptures so that they can assign a kinder nature to their God, that I have assembled a BRIEF list of verses which clearly show that the Old Testament is not to be ignored. Its laws should indeed be adhered to, for the New Testament demands it!

Bible contradicts itself concerning other laws.



1) "For truly, I say to you,
till heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot, will pass the law until all is accomplished. Whoever then relaxes one of the least of these commandments and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven;
but he who does them and teaches them shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven." (Matthew 5:18-19 RSV) Clearly the Old Testament is to be abided by until the end of human existence itself. None other then Jesus said so.

2) All of the vicious Old Testament laws will be binding forever. "It is easier for Heaven and Earth to pass away than for the smallest part of the letter of the law to become invalid." (Luke 16:17 NAB)

3) Jesus strongly approves of the law and the prophets. He hasn't the slightest objection to the cruelties of the Old Testament. "Do not think that I have come to abolish the law or the prophets. I have come not to abolish but to fulfill. Amen, I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest part or the smallest part of a letter will pass from the law, until all things have taken place." (Matthew 5:17 NAB)

3b) "All scripture is
inspired by God and is useful for teaching, for refutation, for correction,
and for training in righteousness..." (2 Timothy 3:16 NAB)

3c) "Know this first of all, that there is no prophecy of scripture that is a matter of personal interpretation, for no prophecy ever came through human will; but rather human beings moved by the holy Spirit spoke under the influence of God." (2 Peter 20-21 NAB)

4) Jesus criticizes the Jews for not killing their disobedient children according to Old Testament law. Mark.7:9-13 "Whoever curses father or mother shall die" (Mark 7:10 NAB)

5) Jesus is criticized by the Pharisees for not washing his hands before eating. He defends himself by attacking them for not killing disobedient children according to the commandment: "He that curseth father or mother, let him die the death." (Matthew 15:4-7)

6) Jesus has a punishment even worse than his father concerning adultery: God said the act of adultery was punishable by death. Jesus says looking with lust is the same thing and you should gouge your eye out, better a part, than the whole. The punishment under Jesus is an eternity in Hell. (Matthew 5:27)

7) Peter says that all slaves should "be subject to [their] masters with all fear," to the bad and cruel as well as the "good and gentle." This is merely an echo of the same slavery commands in the Old Testament. 1 Peter 2:18

8) "Did not Moses give you the law, and yet none of you keepeth the law" (John7:19) and "For the law was given by Moses,..." (John 1:17).

9) "...the scripture cannot be broken." --Jesus Christ, John 10:35


This post was edited on 5/14 2:08 PM by President_Camacho

Jesus dying on the cross changed everything... Created a new covenant,.

Can you provide the Bible verse that says the new covenant voided all the Old Testament?

Should be prima facie evidence. Actually, common sense. The ONLY way to get to heaven is faith in Jesus Christ. He died on the cross for you sins. Deeds and good works will not get you in to heaven... Only your faith will get you into heaven.

 

[BOSSHOGFREE]

You contradit yourself in your (copy and paste) effort to show contradictions. Plus the text you chose is blatantly taken out of the total text. Jesus shows clearly that not all of the law was Gods law telling them that if he is in trouble for not washing his hands (a man made law of the Jewish faith) then they needed to go kill some kids for being out of line (another man made law). Jesus speaks directly that his personal mission isnt to denounce the (man made) law but fulfill the law (the prophecy of his comming). You see its you who are spewing what someone else has told you. You take out of context the words that clearly tell you the opposite of what you hope they do because you dont even care to attempt to understand what the man was saying at the time. Jesus tells us to abide by the laws of man even saying who cares how much tax you pay to Rome when all creation belongs to God.


As for your bigoted rant about Christians just stop. I will openly admit that as in all religions men have used whatever means necessary for power money etc. Shock of all shocks that Christianity has been used as well. The teachings of Christ clearly dont teach to kill in his name so how can you say it is what Christians do? Oh yeah your a bigot. So all youre doing is showing hiw little Bible knowledge you have yet you want to argue it.

Jesus' death burial and resurrection started a new age for man. God allowing us his grace to move forward and follow his law. What you fail to understand about his "contradictions" is that Jesus IS God. He is one with God. His word is the word of God. If he changes the law..... so be it.

 

[HendrixHog]

I respect your views boss. One thing I don't want to get lost here is that I am more than okay with Christian principles to govern one's own life and beyond. I also love this country dearly. We mostly disagree on founder's intentions.

I also might even sign off on a statement that "founders" (still a broad term) established a country based on what they "thought" religious ideals might be. But as in all things mankind muck it up. Or bastardize it. Instill "rights for people" but uh....well not EVERYBODY. Lol. Just certain people.

But thats what people do. Doesn't make me dislike people. Doesn't make me dislike Christians and it doesn't make me dislike this country. It makes me love all of em more actually and that makes me feel close to my understanding of certain teachings. I just won't ever think this country was founded on the pure nature of those teachings. They just don't align.

God Bless
HH

 

[President_Camacho]

Originally posted by BOSSHOGFREE:
You contradit yourself in your (copy and paste) effort to show contradictions. Plus the text you chose is blatantly taken out of the total text. Jesus shows clearly that not all of the law was Gods law telling them that if he is in trouble for not washing his hands (a man made law of the Jewish faith) then they needed to go kill some kids for being out of line (another man made law). Jesus speaks directly that his personal mission isnt to denounce the (man made) law but fulfill the law (the prophecy of his comming). You see its you who are spewing what someone else has told you. You take out of context the words that clearly tell you the opposite of what you hope they do because you dont even care to attempt to understand what the man was saying at the time. Jesus tells us to abide by the laws of man even saying who cares how much tax you pay to Rome when all creation belongs to God.


As for your bigoted rant about Christians just stop. I will openly admit that as in all religions men have used whatever means necessary for power money etc. Shock of all shocks that Christianity has been used as well. The teachings of Christ clearly dont teach to kill in his name so how can you say it is what Christians do? Oh yeah your a bigot. So all youre doing is showing hiw little Bible knowledge you have yet you want to argue it.

Jesus' death burial and resurrection started a new age for man. God allowing us his grace to move forward and follow his law. What you fail to understand about his "contradictions" is that Jesus IS God. He is one with God. His word is the word of God. If he changes the law..... so be it.
Oh boy, here it comes. The Donald Sterling-esque "out of context" arguement. It is impossible to have a logical fact based discussion with Christians. Plus you calling me a bigot repeatedly will not change the fact that you believe in a talking snake. You base your religion on Bronze Age superstition and claim to telepathically communicate with a magical sky being who controls everything. The Bible cannot be independently verified by ANY independent source. The Romans were meticulous in their record keeping, yet have no record of the census that was supposedly the reason Jesus was born in a stable. There is no record of Jesus AT ALL outside the Bible. The story or Jesus is ripped off from other religions, take a look at the story of Horace from ancient Egypt. I doubt you will because you are obviously so closed minded that anything not spoon fed you by the church is abominable to you. But if you did you would find he was born to a virgin, rose from the dead after being killed by his enimies, went to hell and came back, healed the sick and was accompanied by 12 desiples. Keep in mind this story is from 2000 BCE.

You trying to convince me about the truth of Christianity by quoting the Bible is about as silly as trying to prove to me little wooden puppets can come to life by quoting Pinocchio. Its a work of fiction and so is the Bible. When you tell me what Jesus said, you have no idea why you believe that. No one was following Jesus, if he existed at all, around with a note pad. The new testament wasn't written until some 70 years after the supposed life of Jesus. Don't you find that odd? Could you quote someone from 1944 accurately? Let alone with perfect detail?

Tell you what, I'll make you a deal.. I was raised in Church, prayed my ass off, believed undoubtingly, read the Bible inside and out for the first 20 years of my life. I NEVER heard, felt or communicated in any way with God, Jesus or the Holy Spirit. If you can pray to your God and have him talk to me right now, I'll apologize and convert back to Christianity. I'll be waiting.

 

[BOSSHOGFREE]

Originally posted by President_Camacho:

Originally posted by BOSSHOGFREE:
You contradit yourself in your (opy and paste) effort to show . ntradictions. Plus the text you chose is blatantly taken out of the total text. Jesus shows clearly that not all of the law was Gods law telling them that if he is in trouble for not washing his hands (a man made law of the Jewish faith) then they needed to go kill some kids for being out of line (another man made law). Jesus speaks directly that his personal mission isnt to denounce the (man made) law but fulfill the law (the prophecy of his comming). You see its you who are spewing what someone else has told you. You take out of context the words that clearly tell you the opposite of what you hope they do because you dont even care to attempt to understand what the man was saying at the time. Jesus tells us to abide by the laws of man even saying who cares how much tax you pay to Rome when all creation belongs to God.


As for your bigoted rant about Christians just stop. I will openly admit that as in all religions men have used whatever means necessary for power money etc. Shock of all shocks that Christianity has been used as well. The teachings of Christ clearly dont teach to kill in his name so how can you say it is what Christians do? Oh yeah your a bigot. So all youre doing is showing hiw little Bible knowledge you have yet you want to argue it.

Jesus' death burial and resurrection started a new age for man. God allowing us his grace to move forward and follow his law. What you fail to understand about his "contradictions" is that Jesus IS God. He is one with God. His word is the word of God. If he changes the law..... so be it.
Oh boy, here it comes. The Donald Sterling-esque "out of context" arguement. It is impossible to have a logical fact based discussion with Christians. Plus you calling me a bigot repeatedly will not change the fact that you believe in a talking snake. You base your religion on Bronze Age superstition and claim to telepathically communicate with a magical sky being who controls everything. The Bible cannot be independently verified by ANY independent source. The Romans were meticulous in their record keeping, yet have no record of the census that was supposedly the reason Jesus was born in a stable. There is no record of Jesus AT ALL outside the Bible. The story or Jesus is ripped off from other religions, take a look at the story of Horace from ancient Egypt. I doubt you will because you are obviously so closed minded that anything not spoon fed you by the church is abominable to you. But if you did you would find he was born to a virgin, rose from the dead after being killed by his enimies, went to hell and came back, healed the sick and was accompanied by 12 desiples. Keep in mind this story is from 2000 BCE.

You trying to convince me about the truth of Christianity by quoting the Bible is about as silly as trying to prove to me little wooden puppets can come to life by quoting Pinocchio. Its a work of fiction and so is the Bible. When you tell me what Jesus said, you have no idea why you believe that. No one was following Jesus, if he existed at all, around with a note pad. The new testament wasn't written until some 70 years after the supposed life of Jesus. Don't you find that odd? Could you quote someone from 1944 accurately? Let alone with perfect detail?

Tell you what, I'll make you a deal.. I was raised in Church, prayed my ass off, believed undoubtingly, read the Bible inside and out for the first 20 years of my life. I NEVER heard, felt or communicated in any way with God, Jesus or the Holy Spirit. If you can pray to your God and have him talk to me right now, I'll apologize and convert back to Christianity. I'll be waiting.

Ill pray for you. But God answers to no man. The questions are for you to answer. My only question for you did your fa out with God happe n because of what you didnt get from him or what a person/people did? You dont have to answer here. I dont expect you to. However I was just like you at about the same age in my life I went looking for anything to take his place. It only led me back to him when nothing else filled the void. Thats no BS either. 100% truth, my own actions did me in not his. When i finally humbled myself it still took be most of 10 years to accept that I am worthy of forgiveness. I hope you find what youre looking for. Hate is bitter and leaves you empty. Its not the religion that did you wrong. I can promise you that. Good luck!

 

[HookdOnASquealin]

Speaking of faith, I have researched tons of info on the Bible, science, secular historians, etc. and I have come to the conclusion that you have to have more faith to be an atheist than a Christian. I've read all of the arguments on your supposed "contradictions and errors" of the Bible and they don't hold water at all.

 

[Pork n' Beans]

This is from a former pastor of mine.
"I am so saddened and weary from all the anger and hateful rhetoric of our culture. It is so destructive and counter to how God intends us to live..."loving our neighbor". James, the half brother of Jesus gave us a great three part prescription for this sickness of our culture......."EVERYONE should (1) be quick to listen; (2) slow to speak; (3) and slow to become angry......for man's anger DOES NOT bring about the righteous life that God desires."

 

[President_Camacho]

Originally posted by original hambone:

Originally posted by President_Camacho:

Originally posted by original hambone:

Originally posted by President_Camacho:

Originally posted by BOSSHOGFREE:

Originally posted by LaHoggaNostra:
Had a good civil thread going and it gets derailed by a hater. Sad


Posted from wireless.rivals.com

Agreed. As to some of the points made God sent his one and only son to create a new covenant with man. The son of God gave us a new mission in life. He did not throw away the old commandments but fullfilled their proclimation of his coming. Jesus preached forgiveness and love above judgement and condemnation. Sure there are many contraditions from the old to the bew testament...... because God wanted us to know we had failed him and without his intervention we were hopeless. Even Moses stood on the other side of the abyss waiting for Jesus to take on his sin. It isnt hard to see when one wants to the whys and the hows of the differences. They are supposed to be there withouthem there is nothing left for us to aspire to.

We have all fallen short of the glory of God but I write these things so that all may know they any who believe and follow Christ will have their rewerd in heaven. If you understand that he is speeking to a large group of former Jews and gentiles who were beholden to the old law it easily clears up most of the rant above.

Tell me something Boss, do you even know who wrote the New Testament? Do you know when it was written? You have attempted to dismiss my "rant" with the words spoon fed to you by your preacher and other talking heads. I hear so many Christians now a days claim that the Old Testament is defunct for Jesus was the "lamb" to clear away its rules and regulations. This is just another scapegoat that Christians use to ignore the atrocities and bizarre laws commanded by their God. Their preachers spoon feed them that the Old Testament is no longer binding so that they can excuse the majority of evil that the bible promotes. I am so tired of Christians manipulating the scriptures so that they can assign a kinder nature to their God, that I have assembled a BRIEF list of verses which clearly show that the Old Testament is not to be ignored. Its laws should indeed be adhered to, for the New Testament demands it!

Bible contradicts itself concerning other laws.



1) "For truly, I say to you,
till heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot, will pass the law until all is accomplished. Whoever then relaxes one of the least of these commandments and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven;
but he who does them and teaches them shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven." (Matthew 5:18-19 RSV) Clearly the Old Testament is to be abided by until the end of human existence itself. None other then Jesus said so.

2) All of the vicious Old Testament laws will be binding forever. "It is easier for Heaven and Earth to pass away than for the smallest part of the letter of the law to become invalid." (Luke 16:17 NAB)

3) Jesus strongly approves of the law and the prophets. He hasn't the slightest objection to the cruelties of the Old Testament. "Do not think that I have come to abolish the law or the prophets. I have come not to abolish but to fulfill. Amen, I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest part or the smallest part of a letter will pass from the law, until all things have taken place." (Matthew 5:17 NAB)

3b) "All scripture is
inspired by God and is useful for teaching, for refutation, for correction,
and for training in righteousness..." (2 Timothy 3:16 NAB)

3c) "Know this first of all, that there is no prophecy of scripture that is a matter of personal interpretation, for no prophecy ever came through human will; but rather human beings moved by the holy Spirit spoke under the influence of God." (2 Peter 20-21 NAB)

4) Jesus criticizes the Jews for not killing their disobedient children according to Old Testament law. Mark.7:9-13 "Whoever curses father or mother shall die" (Mark 7:10 NAB)

5) Jesus is criticized by the Pharisees for not washing his hands before eating. He defends himself by attacking them for not killing disobedient children according to the commandment: "He that curseth father or mother, let him die the death." (Matthew 15:4-7)

6) Jesus has a punishment even worse than his father concerning adultery: God said the act of adultery was punishable by death. Jesus says looking with lust is the same thing and you should gouge your eye out, better a part, than the whole. The punishment under Jesus is an eternity in Hell. (Matthew 5:27)

7) Peter says that all slaves should "be subject to [their] masters with all fear," to the bad and cruel as well as the "good and gentle." This is merely an echo of the same slavery commands in the Old Testament. 1 Peter 2:18

8) "Did not Moses give you the law, and yet none of you keepeth the law" (John7:19) and "For the law was given by Moses,..." (John 1:17).

9) "...the scripture cannot be broken." --Jesus Christ, John 10:35

This post was edited on 5/14 2:08 PM by President_Camacho

Jesus dying on the cross changed everything... Created a new covenant,.

Can you provide the Bible verse that says the new covenant voided all the Old Testament?

Should be prima facie evidence. Actually, common sense. The ONLY way to get to heaven is faith in Jesus Christ. He died on the cross for you sins. Deeds and good works will not get you in to heaven... Only your faith will get you into heaven.

That doesn't make sense to me. On first sight, (prima facie), Having faith in a person who did not exist and is a knock off of other Bronze Age fairy tales and legends, seems like the opposite of common sense. It seems like hocus pocus to me.

But going back to my original question, you cannot provide a Bible verse to back up your statement? Is that correct?

 

[President_Camacho]

Originally posted by BOSSHOGFREE:

Originally posted by President_Camacho:

Originally posted by BOSSHOGFREE:
You contradit yourself in your (opy and paste) effort to show . ntradictions. Plus the text you chose is blatantly taken out of the total text. Jesus shows clearly that not all of the law was Gods law telling them that if he is in trouble for not washing his hands (a man made law of the Jewish faith) then they needed to go kill some kids for being out of line (another man made law). Jesus speaks directly that his personal mission isnt to denounce the (man made) law but fulfill the law (the prophecy of his comming). You see its you who are spewing what someone else has told you. You take out of context the words that clearly tell you the opposite of what you hope they do because you dont even care to attempt to understand what the man was saying at the time. Jesus tells us to abide by the laws of man even saying who cares how much tax you pay to Rome when all creation belongs to God.


As for your bigoted rant about Christians just stop. I will openly admit that as in all religions men have used whatever means necessary for power money etc. Shock of all shocks that Christianity has been used as well. The teachings of Christ clearly dont teach to kill in his name so how can you say it is what Christians do? Oh yeah your a bigot. So all youre doing is showing hiw little Bible knowledge you have yet you want to argue it.

Jesus' death burial and resurrection started a new age for man. God allowing us his grace to move forward and follow his law. What you fail to understand about his "contradictions" is that Jesus IS God. He is one with God. His word is the word of God. If he changes the law..... so be it.
Oh boy, here it comes. The Donald Sterling-esque "out of context" arguement. It is impossible to have a logical fact based discussion with Christians. Plus you calling me a bigot repeatedly will not change the fact that you believe in a talking snake. You base your religion on Bronze Age superstition and claim to telepathically communicate with a magical sky being who controls everything. The Bible cannot be independently verified by ANY independent source. The Romans were meticulous in their record keeping, yet have no record of the census that was supposedly the reason Jesus was born in a stable. There is no record of Jesus AT ALL outside the Bible. The story or Jesus is ripped off from other religions, take a look at the story of Horace from ancient Egypt. I doubt you will because you are obviously so closed minded that anything not spoon fed you by the church is abominable to you. But if you did you would find he was born to a virgin, rose from the dead after being killed by his enimies, went to hell and came back, healed the sick and was accompanied by 12 desiples. Keep in mind this story is from 2000 BCE.

You trying to convince me about the truth of Christianity by quoting the Bible is about as silly as trying to prove to me little wooden puppets can come to life by quoting Pinocchio. Its a work of fiction and so is the Bible. When you tell me what Jesus said, you have no idea why you believe that. No one was following Jesus, if he existed at all, around with a note pad. The new testament wasn't written until some 70 years after the supposed life of Jesus. Don't you find that odd? Could you quote someone from 1944 accurately? Let alone with perfect detail?

Tell you what, I'll make you a deal.. I was raised in Church, prayed my ass off, believed undoubtingly, read the Bible inside and out for the first 20 years of my life. I NEVER heard, felt or communicated in any way with God, Jesus or the Holy Spirit. If you can pray to your God and have him talk to me right now, I'll apologize and convert back to Christianity. I'll be waiting.

Ill pray for you. But God answers to no man. The questions are for you to answer. My only question for you did your fa out with God happe n because of what you didnt get from him or what a person/people did? You dont have to answer here. I dont expect you to. However I was just like you at about the same age in my life I went looking for anything to take his place. It only led me back to him when nothing else filled the void. Thats no BS either. 100% truth, my own actions did me in not his. When i finally humbled myself it still took be most of 10 years to accept that I am worthy of forgiveness. I hope you find what youre looking for. Hate is bitter and leaves you empty. Its not the religion that did you wrong. I can promise you that. Good luck!

 

[President_Camacho]

Originally posted by BOSSHOGFREE:

Originally posted by President_Camacho:

Originally posted by BOSSHOGFREE:
You contradit yourself in your (opy and paste) effort to show . ntradictions. Plus the text you chose is blatantly taken out of the total text. Jesus shows clearly that not all of the law was Gods law telling them that if he is in trouble for not washing his hands (a man made law of the Jewish faith) then they needed to go kill some kids for being out of line (another man made law). Jesus speaks directly that his personal mission isnt to denounce the (man made) law but fulfill the law (the prophecy of his comming). You see its you who are spewing what someone else has told you. You take out of context the words that clearly tell you the opposite of what you hope they do because you dont even care to attempt to understand what the man was saying at the time. Jesus tells us to abide by the laws of man even saying who cares how much tax you pay to Rome when all creation belongs to God.


As for your bigoted rant about Christians just stop. I will openly admit that as in all religions men have used whatever means necessary for power money etc. Shock of all shocks that Christianity has been used as well. The teachings of Christ clearly dont teach to kill in his name so how can you say it is what Christians do? Oh yeah your a bigot. So all youre doing is showing hiw little Bible knowledge you have yet you want to argue it.

Jesus' death burial and resurrection started a new age for man. God allowing us his grace to move forward and follow his law. What you fail to understand about his "contradictions" is that Jesus IS God. He is one with God. His word is the word of God. If he changes the law..... so be it.
Oh boy, here it comes. The Donald Sterling-esque "out of context" arguement. It is impossible to have a logical fact based discussion with Christians. Plus you calling me a bigot repeatedly will not change the fact that you believe in a talking snake. You base your religion on Bronze Age superstition and claim to telepathically communicate with a magical sky being who controls everything. The Bible cannot be independently verified by ANY independent source. The Romans were meticulous in their record keeping, yet have no record of the census that was supposedly the reason Jesus was born in a stable. There is no record of Jesus AT ALL outside the Bible. The story or Jesus is ripped off from other religions, take a look at the story of Horace from ancient Egypt. I doubt you will because you are obviously so closed minded that anything not spoon fed you by the church is abominable to you. But if you did you would find he was born to a virgin, rose from the dead after being killed by his enimies, went to hell and came back, healed the sick and was accompanied by 12 desiples. Keep in mind this story is from 2000 BCE.

You trying to convince me about the truth of Christianity by quoting the Bible is about as silly as trying to prove to me little wooden puppets can come to life by quoting Pinocchio. Its a work of fiction and so is the Bible. When you tell me what Jesus said, you have no idea why you believe that. No one was following Jesus, if he existed at all, around with a note pad. The new testament wasn't written until some 70 years after the supposed life of Jesus. Don't you find that odd? Could you quote someone from 1944 accurately? Let alone with perfect detail?

Tell you what, I'll make you a deal.. I was raised in Church, prayed my ass off, believed undoubtingly, read the Bible inside and out for the first 20 years of my life. I NEVER heard, felt or communicated in any way with God, Jesus or the Holy Spirit. If you can pray to your God and have him talk to me right now, I'll apologize and convert back to Christianity. I'll be waiting.

Ill pray for you. But God answers to no man. The questions are for you to answer. My only question for you did your fa out with God happe n because of what you didnt get from him or what a person/people did? You dont have to answer here. I dont expect you to. However I was just like you at about the same age in my life I went looking for anything to take his place. It only led me back to him when nothing else filled the void. Thats no BS either. 100% truth, my own actions did me in not his. When i finally humbled myself it still took be most of 10 years to accept that I am worthy of forgiveness. I hope you find what youre looking for. Hate is bitter and leaves you empty. Its not the religion that did you wrong. I can promise you that. Good luck!

I'm more than happy to discuss my reasons for being an Atheist. It was not just one moment. As I stated before I was raised Christian. I know the Bible quite well and have a good working knowledge. That's what began my trip towards Atheism. How can a book that claims to be divine have so many factual errors? How can Christianity be proven wrong so many times and still be divine? An example is the world being flat. People were put to death by the Church for saying anything to the contrary. We now know its round.

I value some Christian prinicples greatly, such as though shall not lie. Its a great way to live one's live IMO. I couldn't lie and tell my self I had any kind of connection to God, Jesus or the Holy Spirit. In all my life I felt nothing and I believe those people who do claim that are being dishonest. They do not possess abilities that I do not, that ability being to hear, feel or talk to the divine. As I dug further I discovered that the story of Jesus is not an original one. The Middle East is full of legends and tales from before the time of Jesus that tell the same story. Also, the fervor with which some grasp onto religion and damage other people is quite detestable to me. It seems to me that the leaders in religon are master manipulators searching for money and power.

You're right about anger being something that will eat you and destroy you. I have had my time with that issue myself. However, religion did nothing to help me. I believe that it only damages one's ability to handle the harsh truths of life by diluting oneself with anticdotes and fairy tales that provide false hope. I refuse to waste my life by living for relgion when there is a mountain of evidence starring me in the face saying religion is inaccurate and little more than superstition used to control people. I have found zero evidence of the God of the Judeo/Christian tradition existing at all.

I do not doubt your experience and I'm truly happy when other people are fulfilled. However, I've never bought into the forgiveness model of Christianity. I find myself to be quite moral and an upstanding citizen. I don't harm others and I follow all the Ten Commandments that don't involve God, such as lie, kill, steal etc... The only thing I am guilty of is not buying into the cult. I don't give money, I don't pretend to believe and I am not afraid of dying. Because that's why I suspect you and most other Christians sign up. You want to live forever. Hell, so do I. But thats not how things work and I feel religions dangle that false hope of overcoming the ultimate fear as bait.

 

[President_Camacho]

Originally posted by HookdOnASquealin:
Speaking of faith, I have researched tons of info on the Bible, science, secular historians, etc. and I have come to the conclusion that you have to have more faith to be an atheist than a Christian. I've read all of the arguments on your supposed "contradictions and errors" of the Bible and they don't hold water at all.

Really? Okay, how did Judas die? The Bible gives two completely different answers. How is this?

Can you explain fossils and carbon dating in a biblical context? How is the Earth only 6,300 years old according to the bible when there are mountains of evidence to the contrary?

Why are the stories of Jesus' birth so radically different in the gospels? 2 of the 4 don't even mention it.

Why do the Romans have no records of a census in the year of Jesus' birth?

Explain these and tell me why they are not contradictory:

God is the author of evil Lam 3:38/ Jer 18:11/ Is 45:7/ Amos 3:6/ Ezek 20:25
God is not the author of evil 1 Cor 14:33/ Deut 32:4/ James 1:13

God is unchangeable James 1:17/ Mal 3:6/ Ezek 24:14/ Num 23:19
God is changeable Gen 6:6/ Jonah 3:10/ 1 Sam 2:30,31/ 2 Kings 20:1,4,5,6/ Ex 33:1,3,17,14

God tempts men Gen 22:1/ 2 Sam 24:1/ Jer 20:7/ Matt 6:13
God tempts no man James 1:13

God dwells in chosen temples 2 Chron 7:12,16
God dwells not in temples Acts 7:48

Lying approved and sanctioned Joshua 2:4-6/ James 2:25/ Ex 1:18-20/ 1 Kings 22:21,22
Lying forbidden Ex 20:16/ Prov 12:22/ Rev 21:8

Please explain these to me and be as specific as I have taken the time to be.

 

[Lolly Hog]

There is a difference between being religious and being spiritual.

The latter does not require church attendance. Many people who attend church regularly are not spiritual. Spiritually comes with true faith.

Some have faith, some don't. BHF obviously does.

I learned a long time ago that you can't take away someone's faith with argument.
And, you can't give someone faith with argument.

This thread's title is "hatred." There is obviously a lot going on here.

If the underlying issue is the recent ruling on gay marriage, I just need to say:

This is not a religious issue, whatever your opinions or church may teach you. "Separation of church and state" is part of the US Constitution. I know some don't want to recognize that, but it is what it is.

A judge cannot make a ruling based on religious beliefs.

 

[unahogger]

for the fool says in his heart there is no God.

 

[Pigasus22]

Originally posted by President_Camacho:

Originally posted by BOSSHOGFREE:

Originally posted by HendrixHog:
Ok thanks for clarifying boss. That is where I suspected you were going with that.

Truth is a tricky word. If I said "Lou Holtz is the best coach we ever had and thats the truth." It might very well be the case. I may believe it in my heart so what I am saying is true to me. But saying it doesn't necessarily make it true. Even though it very well could be. But I have faith that it is true. my faith does not make it true.

I also would probably disagree with who the founders are and what their Jesus-like intent were. Unless you refer only to the 17th century settlers of some religious beliefs. Which if so, that is cool. But if you mean any founders as European shippers, traders or mass land owner types that had ANYthing to do with COMMERCE, then that seems to rule out Jesus from the jump. Most things commerce do not equal the teachings of Jesus as I understand them. But I don't know for sure.

But thats just me - I do think the two can coexist (Christianity and Economy). I just balk at a Jesus-principled roots of a country. That has always insulted the idea of Jesus to me. To each his own.

Our nation in not founded on Christianity alone but it is founded on the principals of Christianity that have no historical equal. The idea that each man is endowed by the natural rights of freedom given to us by God that no man can take away had no equal throughout the history of nations. There is a massive difference between a religious state and a state that used a religion to build its fundamentals. My wife who is a history major (specifically early US history). Yes, it is the truth that not only was the country setteled by Christian based people seeking asylum as well our founders used the religions principals to mold our world changing core beliefs. This is fact. I understand that may not sit well with you and thats ok but it is the truth. Conjecture doesnt change history. The use of the word God is very telling. Befofe the Jewish religion came to be known there was no wide stream understanding of a singulard God and then ALL new religions held that principal. A singular God is biblical and in the time of the founders written in English it is all but certainly a reference to a Christian God. Even so the just a in the Bible free will is given to the people in our nation. The same freedom of will and choice Given by God can be used to denounce him.

most non Christians refuse to see that part of Christianity. The teachings of Christ have been labeled as hate speech and it could not be further from the truth. There is in fact a direct connection between the teachings of Christ that were historically ground breaking and our nations founding pricipals.

That's not accurate. This country was founded by some people who were not Christians and most considered religion as a detriment. It is only in the last 80 years that this country has turned more religious. "Lighthouses are more helpful than churches." - Ben Franklin

As for the historical principles of Christianity they are filled with murder, genocide, homophobia and slavery. But most Christians know very little about their Bible. If they did they would know that the supposed flawless book has over 300 direct contradictions and errors. Why would you base your life on a book with so many flaws? Go study your bible. I did, and now I'm an Atheist.



This post was edited on 5/14 10:53 AM by President_Camacho

I love your posts, PC because they are thought provoking, and you're putting yourself and your beliefs out here for a tough crowd. That makes you honest and courageous, two qualities that I do so admire in a person.

As for what I highlighted in bold, I think you low-balled that number of contradictions. Oh yes, they are there. I've read them all-- many times, in fact. I'm sure you are also aware that there are other "books" that didn't make the cut to be included in the Bible by the "powers that be"--those that held the knowledge back from the masses. One such Bible-missing book is the Book of Mary. I'll never understand why that book wasn't included because I found it to be very informative---along with the other Lost Books of the Bible. But I digress...

I have no idea how old you are, but I can tell you that I was once where you are right now belief-wise. I had an atheist professor in college that challenged everything that I was raised to believe, so it also sounds like our upbringing was similar in that we were raised to believe in Christianity but reached a period in our lives where we had questions in matters of faith--BUT we chose to ask ourselves the tough questions instead of carrying on with our lives and not asking ourselves the tough questions. Although it was a time of turmoil within me and my spirit, I'm glad it happened. Going through all that "hell" made me a stronger person in the end.

Bottom line--I spent many years researching as many "versions" of the Bible that I could find and seeking to answer WHO wrote each book and when was it written. I read the translated Torah, a translation of the Greek version of the NT, and so on... I spent so many years reading history recollections of those much earlier times in books, articles, and etc.. To be perfectly honest with you, I found many of the answers that I was seeking in history books. I should also mention that I have always believed in science, so there is there was that to deal with, too. I'm sure you get the point of all this--my searching...

I made my peace with all of the contradictions in the Bible and its authors, timelines, and with science. It sure wasn't an easy "trip" though.

I believe in God because of science. Yes, BECAUSE of science. It is statistically impossible to for us to not have a Creator. Our human minds can't begin to fathom making something from nothing. And so, even the scientists seek the "God Particle" to help them make sense of it all. For me personally, there is no conflict at all between science and God or His creations.

The stories and words of the Bible were inspired by God, but those stories and words were written down by men, originally being handed down orally throughout the ages before they were ever written down the first time. Anytime "man" is involved there will be errors and contradictions. We are not perfect creatures and never will be. Try telling a story to a person and have him tell it to the next person in a long line of people (say 500 people). The story is told over and over. Tell me what the story is all about by the time it gets to the last person. Needless to say, it will not be the original story told to the first person.

I guess this is a good stopping point other than to say that if you are happy, I'm happy that you are. As I read the words in all of your posts, I sensed that perhaps you weren't. It was kind of hard to tell, and that is why I posted this post and about all I've gone through myself to find my own peace.

I hope you are at peace with the answer you found. If you're not, I hope you find it.

Edit for my typo.







This post was edited on 5/16 7:03 PM by Pigasus22

 

[Luke_Hawg]

Atheism is only temporary. Every knee shall bow.