I agree with you. The point I was trying to make is that I'm afraid too many Christians wouldn't speak out about Westboro's tactics if they weren't directed toward the war dead. I'd like to think I'm wrong about that, but I'm afraid I'm not.
Westboro to picket Boston funerals: Anonymous preparing to counter them
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1. Alot of Christians have changed their take on segregation since the 50's-60's too, but you didn't seem to dwell on that when you tossed them under the bus to sell your point. The democratic party used to be the party of the working class, the common man, the family values folks too. There was alot more to it than racial views. Nowadays, it is the party of aging hippies, far left extremists, big government profiteers, and socialists. The powers that be in the republican party are still trying to carry on the business as usual politics that both parties played well together for decades and haven't seemed to notice the dems aren't playing that game anymore. As a result the true conservatives in this country, many of them former dems like me, have no party anymore. We hold our noses and vote for the repubs b/c they are at least pretending to be with us, but as of now, our country needs a new party.
2. Put your money where your mouth is and give me a number that you would find exceptable. For you to just dismissively pass off those folks as a passel who claim to is declare many fine people as liars just b/c you want them to be. Christians with a prayer life that is important enough to them to pray for those they don't agree with are not going to lie about it to fool you.
3. Maybe you should reference the Pharassees and the money changers on your next trip through the Bible. As for me, I never claimed in anyway to be a shining example of my faith, simply that I have faith. I don't give lip service to anything I don't mean, ever. And the last kind of person I need to tell me my problem is with Jesus is a guy like you. Now that you have declared yourself a Christian, if you want to go into a scriptual debate of my politics vs yours, let's do it. Otherwise, you need to concentrate on your walk not mine. Oh , and no part of me has ever claimed or shown to be tolerant of anything I disagree with. Just the opposite, I have made it clear at least twice in this thread alone that nobody is tolerant in the real world and the whole "tolerance" crowd are frauds. Where in the heck did you come up with me giving lip service to tolerance out of any of that?
4. So, you are saying the only good muslims in our world are bad muslims in their world? No wonder you see Christains in the same light as you do muslims. You only like those who only practice the easy parts of their faith. And unless your right to expect Christians to behave like Christians is drawn straight from what you glean from the Bible, you are incorrect. And by that I mean the entire Word, not the parts of it you handpick to match your agenda.
5. So, I guess that means no mission trips to Iran for you. Didn't think so. Amazing how again you turned current world affairs into the "Christians did it to 500 years ago" so it's all the same. Really weak.
6. By your way of thinking, Jesus, being a carpenter and all, would have been right in there helping to build that mosque I reckon. Except that does kind of fly in the face of the whole don't worship false gods thing that Jesus surely took very seriously. Bible can be really confusing when you just use the parts you like and disregard the rest.
7. I didn't ask you if you would liked to see a muslim neighbor dancing in the street after 911. Where did you come up with that? I said you would be a moron to expect one to do that even if that is the way he truly felt. You have anything to dispute that bit of normal human nature and common sense?
8. I never said most of anything did anything, I said it happened and it did. I did not try to speculate percentages as that would be a wild shot in the dark. Conversely, that also goes for the inner feelings of the peaceful Muslims you seem to think you know all about. Like every other faction of life, I'm sure muslims have feelings that are not privvy to those outside their immediate circles of comfort and for folks like you to assume you know what those inner feelings are is a joke. I'm not condemning them all, but I'm not assuming they are all pure of heart either. That high ranking Doc at Ft Hood seemed normal enough to get where he got in life w/o drawing suspicion to himself beforehand. Again, if they don't want to be lumped in with the radicals, they need to learn to police their own. We don't seem to have these issues with Hindus, Buddists, or any other religions(here's where you tell me what the Christians did in the 1700's again or maybe about Attilla the Hun).
This post was edited on 4/18 3:30 PM by rzrbk7777
NEA-the weird thing is I didn't really pay attention to these wackos until I heard they were going to protest Ronnie James Dio's funeral. I was always a big fan of his and thought that was just about the lamest thing I had ever heard, then I read up on them and found out how evil they really were. I am pretty sure I have never seen a family that hates everyone else on Earth as much as they do.
Yeah, they're a sick group, Lahogga. I don't recall the first time I ever heard of them, but for some reason they've decided every violent death suffered by an American is God's direct judgment on us for "tolerating" homosexuals. I'm not even sure why they picked that particular sin. Seems to me the Lord would have quite an array to choose from & those wouldn't be limited to the U.S. or to recent times. Apparently they think their own hatred is okay with the Lord. Go figure.
1. Of course a lot of Christians have changed their minds about segregation since the 1960's. A lot of Christians have changed their minds about slavery since the 1860's. That's not the point. The point is that while Christian teachings haven't changed a whole lot of Christians use their faith as an excuse to do some awfully un-Christian things. Been that way for centuries & continues that way today. I have a lot more respect for a Christian who does something wrong & admits it's wrong than I do for one who does something wrong & claims it's okay--hating & discriminating against Muslims for instance.
2. I have no doubt there are Christians who fervently pray for those they believe are terrible sinners. Unfortunately, I also have no doubt that a whole lot more claim to do than actually do it. For example, you will never convince me you pray for Barack Obama or for anyone you dislike or disagree with. I can usually tell the difference between those who truly live their Christian faith & those who spew hatred while claiming to embrace Christianity & the teachings of Christ.
3. I'm not sure what you mean by referencing Pharisees & money changers. If you mean Jesus showed little tolerance for religious hypocrites & people who used his father's house to feed their greed, yep, he was not tolerant of those things. He was quite tolerant of pagans, adultresses, tax collector/cheats, prostitutes, Roman soldiers, etc. He told parables that condemned rich, selfish sorts that also showed forgiveness to wastrels & the poor.
4. I have no idea what your 4th paragraph says. It's mostly unintelligible gibberish.
5. I don't know what you're trying to say in your 5th paragraph, either. I guess I admit I don't plan to take a mission trip to Iran. What's your point?
6. I don't know that Jesus would have built a Mosque, but I am confident he would not have prevented one from being built. He would have quickly & in a loving way shown any of them who were interested that they were in error, but he wouldn't have used the power of the state or his own power to have stopped them from building it.
7. You're right that people often hide their true feelings so it wouldn't surprise me if a Muslim wouldn't have necessarily shown he was happy about 9/11. However, I don't think I have a right to presume a Muslim was happy about 9/11 if he acted upset about it. So you're correct about human nature. That's why I am sure you'd claim to pray for those you hate. I just don't happen to believe you. Your words belie your words.
8. Your paragraph 8 is also unintelligible gibberish except that it appears you think Muslims should have done something to stop the crazy Muslim soldier at Ft. Hood. I suppose if one of them knew about him, I agree. Anyone who knew or should've known he'd go on a shooting spree should've tried to stop him. Just as anyone who had a chance should've tried to stop any of the other crazies who've gone on murderous rampages.
Five years ago I left a church I had been a member of for 5 years. The reason I left that church was a strange one by normal standards, I left that church b/c it really bothered me that they had elected me an elder. You see, I knew I was not worthy of such a title and therefore I knew that my choosing could not have been of God. The motivation was obvious, I showed up every Sunday and I was quick to pull out the checkbook when I saw a need. I decided I could not attend any church that would have someone like me in a leadership role. While I throw that out on occasion to get a laugh, inside I know it to be true. I have no illusions of who or what I am spiritually. As far as Christians go, I fully expect to be in the absolute bottom of the pecking order in Heaven. So all of your notions that I put myself on some kind of religious pedestal come from you, not me. I have said more than once on this very board that I am a poor example of my faith. Just how clear on that do I need to get before you quit acting like I say otherwise?
Matter of fact, you will find nowhere in my posts where I ever claimed or implied that I pray for obama, abortionists, or anybody else I don't like. I know I should and I know lots of people very well that do just that, but I just don't think I can do it sincerely and so I don't. That is an issue between me and God but in the meantime, you won't see me claiming otherwise.
That said, I'm not surprised that you find alot of my stuff unreadable as you seem to think you see stuff I never say on a pretty regular basis. If you can quote anywhere where I said I pray for obama, practice tolerance, or simply state my hatred of people(though I may have said I hate liberals a few times I admit), then do it. Until then, worry more about your reading comprehension than my ability to write.
I don't know that I have ever known a muslim or even met one. My knowledge of the faith is through their works throughout my lifetime that have been consistent and steadily gotten worse. In my lifetime they have caused constant turmoil and killed countless innocent people in the name of Allah. They have done nothing to right themselves and wherever they have been in control people have suffered, rights have been squashed, and women have been treated with less regard than a good pet owner gives his dog. The key term here is in my lifetime. I have heard of slavery, but I never saw it. I have heard of the Salem Witch Trials, but I never saw it. I have heard of the nazi deathcamps, but I never saw them. I have heard of the Crusades but I never saw it. All of those things were stopped before I was born, so they are merely sad pieces of history to me. The muslim faction in this world is more powerful and dangerous than at anytime in my lifetime and they show no signs of stopping it on their own. If you choose to dismiss them as a normal religion with a few rogue radicals, that's up to you. I need to see something besides what I have been seeing my whole life.
I don't know that I have ever met a KKK member either but I also know them through their works. Is it truly that unreasonable for me to judge them by their works? How about the McVay bunch, do we really know that everybody in their group was on board with what they did? Maybe there were some good folks in there that just got unfairly labeled by the troublemakers. Of course I know better than that, but that seems to be the main basis for your arguments.
You are what you run with in life. Bikers run with bikers, athletes run with athletes, actors run with actors, Christians run with Christians, etc. That behavior starts early in life. When I was in school, you had your freaks, your goatropers, your your Bible thumpers, your jocks, your band geeks, your straights, and so on. I'm sure the labels and the attire has changed over the years, but the bottom line has always been the same, you associate with those you are most like.
Those who choose the Muslim faith are tying themselves to terrorists, folks who forsake human rights, and folks that place little value on anybody that doesn't hold their views. If that is not who you want to be, then in this country you have the option to go be somebody else, practice your faith another way(I have no doubt that you can worship Allah, God, or anybody else you want w/o being forced into an affiliation you don't agree with). If the face of the Muslim religion is so out of whack with the mainstream of the faith, it would seem like in my lifetime they would have figured out a way to either remove the troublemakers or remove themselves from them w/o turning on their faith where it really counts. It may not be as simple as I make it sound, but it's not like they haven't had decades to figure it out.
Matter of fact, you will find nowhere in my posts where I ever claimed or implied that I pray for obama, abortionists, or anybody else I don't like. I know I should and I know lots of people very well that do just that, but I just don't think I can do it sincerely and so I don't. That is an issue between me and God but in the meantime, you won't see me claiming otherwise.
That said, I'm not surprised that you find alot of my stuff unreadable as you seem to think you see stuff I never say on a pretty regular basis. If you can quote anywhere where I said I pray for obama, practice tolerance, or simply state my hatred of people(though I may have said I hate liberals a few times I admit), then do it. Until then, worry more about your reading comprehension than my ability to write.
I don't know that I have ever known a muslim or even met one. My knowledge of the faith is through their works throughout my lifetime that have been consistent and steadily gotten worse. In my lifetime they have caused constant turmoil and killed countless innocent people in the name of Allah. They have done nothing to right themselves and wherever they have been in control people have suffered, rights have been squashed, and women have been treated with less regard than a good pet owner gives his dog. The key term here is in my lifetime. I have heard of slavery, but I never saw it. I have heard of the Salem Witch Trials, but I never saw it. I have heard of the nazi deathcamps, but I never saw them. I have heard of the Crusades but I never saw it. All of those things were stopped before I was born, so they are merely sad pieces of history to me. The muslim faction in this world is more powerful and dangerous than at anytime in my lifetime and they show no signs of stopping it on their own. If you choose to dismiss them as a normal religion with a few rogue radicals, that's up to you. I need to see something besides what I have been seeing my whole life.
I don't know that I have ever met a KKK member either but I also know them through their works. Is it truly that unreasonable for me to judge them by their works? How about the McVay bunch, do we really know that everybody in their group was on board with what they did? Maybe there were some good folks in there that just got unfairly labeled by the troublemakers. Of course I know better than that, but that seems to be the main basis for your arguments.
You are what you run with in life. Bikers run with bikers, athletes run with athletes, actors run with actors, Christians run with Christians, etc. That behavior starts early in life. When I was in school, you had your freaks, your goatropers, your your Bible thumpers, your jocks, your band geeks, your straights, and so on. I'm sure the labels and the attire has changed over the years, but the bottom line has always been the same, you associate with those you are most like.
Those who choose the Muslim faith are tying themselves to terrorists, folks who forsake human rights, and folks that place little value on anybody that doesn't hold their views. If that is not who you want to be, then in this country you have the option to go be somebody else, practice your faith another way(I have no doubt that you can worship Allah, God, or anybody else you want w/o being forced into an affiliation you don't agree with). If the face of the Muslim religion is so out of whack with the mainstream of the faith, it would seem like in my lifetime they would have figured out a way to either remove the troublemakers or remove themselves from them w/o turning on their faith where it really counts. It may not be as simple as I make it sound, but it's not like they haven't had decades to figure it out.
Oh nea, I forgot to clear up numbers 4 and 8 for you. If you have a reading disability and I have accidently discriminated against you please accept my apology. for future reference, if I am replying directly to something you said and it comes off as gibberish to you, I'm likely either inferring you are either clueless or lying or both in whatever you said that I'm responding to. Hope that knowledge saves you some time later on.
In 4, I'm saying you like your Muslims just like you like your Christians, practicing their faith in a casual way so as not to let their beliefs get in the way of your liberal causes. Then I go on to try to explain that folks that don't attempt to follow the word of their faith to the best of their abilities, are bad examples of their faith, and those are the kind you seem to like. On this one I'm probably going to lean toward inferring the liar one.
In 8, I'm trying to say that you couldn't have picked out the Fort Hood guy out of a group of "good Muslims" if your life had depended on it . The 911 guys either for that matter. Oh,and we try to stop the other crazies too, as you call them, but since they tend to be random nutjobs and not sponsored, trained, and brainwashed by the most powerful terrorist organization on the planet, they should be a little harder to detect than the terrorists, wouldn't you think? Well, probably not as long as we ignore the terrorists out of our politically correct fear of offending somebody. No doubt I'm inferring you are clueless on this one. Don't fret,it will get easier for you.
Sorry, I hadn't noticed you missed number 5 too. Five was in response to the fact that you really do realize that the Muslim run countries would string you up and make an example of you if you stepped on their land and started spewing your lib agenda to them. Remember I suggested that you guys send some tolerance missionaries over there to spread the good word of liberalism to your adopted allies in the Middle East. I asked you to video it. Your response indicated to me that you wouldn't be going over there as suggested, and then you even said it's really bad over there. I was really kind of praising you for not being so clueless when your butt is at risk. And you were also kind of agreeing with me that you know the Muslims hate your politics worse than I do. You don't remember that? Bless your heart.
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Of course it's about identifying the threat & of course Muslim extremists are a threat. The problem is with treating all Muslims (or all Arabs) as if they're extremists. They're not. That's especially true of American Muslims. One of the worst chapters in this nation's history was the Japanese internment camps following Pearl Harbor. The Japanese gov't was a threat. Japanese Americans were not. (We didn't imprison German Americans even though the German gov't was clearly a threat.)
I was in Israel a couple of years ago. Not only did I deal with a lot of Muslims, I discussed the situation there with many Israelis about how they got along. Every person I spoke to said the vast majority of them got along just fine. They interacted constantly with each other. It was the extremists caused the problem.
All I'm saying is that we shouldn't treat innocent people as if they're guilty just because they look like, have the same ethnicity as, or share the same religion as others who are indeed guilty. As a white southerner I look like, have the same ethnicity as, and share a religion (protestant Christianity) with the KKK & segregationists sympathizers. I would hate to be lumped in with that group & treated differently because of their behavior.
I won't even attempt to read those two rambling rants. Just a quick glance is enough. You're a bitter man who hates those who disagree with you. All your posts scream that about you.
When someone throws out a talking point.
And you respond with a specific and detailed answer..
And the person respond with name calling... What does that mean?
You read em. You couldn't help yourself, you are just running out of philisophical BS to counter with. You ramble along from post to post throwing out generic BS that directs the subject away from the stuff you can't defend with the truth so as to muddy the water to the point that the original argument gets lost in the shuffle. You sprinkle in just enough truth amongst your diatribe to lend a little credibility to all of the stuff you support but can't honestly defend in hopes that your opponent will get tired of it and just go away.
If that doesn't work for you, you throw out the typical liberal trump card of declaring your opponent to be a hater, bitter, a racist, and a closed minded and biggoted neanderthal that lacks the enlightenment of the social elitist left of which you are a proud member. In the end you throw out names that add nothing to the debate except to declare you have run out of ammo but don't want to admit it. All of your posts scream that about you.
This post was edited on 4/19 12:15 PM by rzrbk7777
It looked like he simply repeated the same stuff & in his usual rambling fashion. A reply from me would've been equally repetitive. I've read enough of his posts on this & other topics to know he's just a hate-filled guy. At some point it's better to simply let him rant. That's the point I've come to. (BTW, If you want to read through all his posts & want to point out something new in his last two that I haven't already addressed, have at it. If there's really any new material I'll respond to that.)
This post was edited on 4/19 1:00 PM by NEastArkie
I'm taking the high road, I'm the bigger man, I'm above all of the hate filled rhetoric, I'm tired of this, I'm tired of that, after a 14 post debate I have decided that debating with this guy is beneath me, I'm not going to lower myself to responding anymore, you are just a bitter, hate filled, intolerant loser, and my favorite, haters gonna hate---- That's how a liberal surrenders when losing a debate.
This post was edited on 4/19 8:12 PM by rzrbk7777
They might be down to 11 members. Didn't two girls leave the fold?
That fact doesn't seem to stop the left from extrapolating that all conservatives are "right wing nuts" like WBBC.
As the terrorists would love for everyone to consider all Muslims to be terrorists as well. What ever it takes to make the US out to be hypocrites when it comes to stereotyping people based on anything. Not that we shouldn't apply our security measures more like the Israel.
I think the terrorist factions like things the way they are as far as our politically correct need to not accidentally profile anybody. That is what allows them come here, go to school or whatever, and make their plans while not drawing attention to themselves.
The only folks that could possibly see them for their true radical feelings would be their fellow Muslims who thus far in our history, don't appear to be too quick to tell on them.
For all of the flack I have taken in this thread from the PC police, nowhere in any of it have I suggested that we just make blanket assumptions that everyone that practices Islam is a terrorist. That would be as stupid as the other extreme that the PC prefers which is to stick our heads in the sand and pretend none are terrorists until we have been attacked again and then go into drama queen mode by making the rest of the muslim world victims too b/c their brethren committed a terrorist act.
Somewhere in between those two ridiculous extremes there lies a more realistic and effective way. Should we treat them all like criminals? Of course not. Should we strive to add them to the ever increasing list of perpetual victims that the left finds under every rock and in almost every circumstance? Heck no.
Fact is, if you are a Muslim in this country, the acts of your fellow muslims have severely tainted your image worldwide and being more closely scrutinized should neither be shocking or offensive to you. People are dying regularly in the name of your faith. Innocent people, children, parents, old people, people with no dog in the fight in any meaningful way are dying b/c of your fellow believers. Citizens have every right to protect their innocent. Not just a right but an obligation.
If the vast majority of muslims are peace loving folks and don't want to be looked at with suspicsion, they need to have a no tolerance policy toward such things and be proactive in helping the world to stop these guys. I have yet to see leaders of the Muslim faith in this country do anything but sit quietly by and say little to nothing, much less stand up and be defiant of the radicals that blemish their reputations. That is my issue with them.
The Jim Jone's, the David Koreshes, the WBC bunch etc, , were all fringe factions of society that used Christianity as an excuse and means of furthering their sick and twisted agendas. Christians everywhere find them just as sick as the rest of the world and have made it clear to all that those people were not practicing our faith and do not represent us. Religion is not a genetic trait, it is a choice. If you choose a particular religion then you are joining a large club of likeminded people. From then on the actions of that club will serve as a reflection of who and what you are. That's why if factions of your faith are going against your beliefs, you either remove them or remove yourself from that organization. Practicing your faith does not require a huge organization to be affiliated with. Faith and the practice of it is between you and God in the end. Organized religions are manmade and subject to the corruption and weaknesses of the humans that inhabit them. They are not required to practice your faith. If you choose to affiliate with a particular faction, you get the label that goes with it. That does not make you a victim.
This post was edited on 4/22 5:53 PM by rzrbk7777
Thanks again nea for getting this thread moved to the GB. There is alot of important stuff in this thread that needs to be read. Had you left it on the Edge it would have rolled off 4-5 days ago never to be seen again. Over here it will sit close to the top for weeks and will be seen and thought about by many more folks. Good job.
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