Do you believe in ghosts or aliens?

[BOSSHOGFREE]

Threads like this are interesting.....

Does anyone remember the mainboard "office chick" thread or the "gypsy thread".....both of those were "so mag".

Gypsy thread is the most epic of all epic threads. GOAT.

 

[Blue Hole]

Given the technological and educational growth in our civilization over the past 200 years alone what would be the knowledge curve of a civilization billions of years older than ours? Considering scientists say man is only 200,000 years old from infancy to modern superior intelligence and that civilization itself is only 6,000 years old what would be the intelligence and capabilities of a civilization thay was roughly 5,000,000,000 years older than our own? That's a lot more zeros. And then realize that there should be over 100,000 civilizations of that rough age on life capable planets in our galaxy alone. And then consider there are virtually an immeasurable number of galaxies. Not a peep in the sky. Not even the sound of a sneeze. The technology wouldn't only be there but we should be the property of some race. Math tells us we should be in the middle of an alien super highway. Yet, nothing.... nada

I understand your point however I counter with certain laws of physics we know to be true. Even with our tiny bit of knowledge gained in the time of our existence we can prove certain things through the scientific process. The laws of physics are the universal language that will not change no matter how long a civilization has existed. Of course those civilizations may have a much deeper understanding of those laws and means to harness the energy that we can't even begin to comprehend. Still, the speed of light is the speed of light, it's a constant. The vastness between solar systems, much less galaxies is massively immense. If a civilization could bend space time and move through the universe, they would essentially BE the universe. There is other life in the universe, no doubt in my mind, it's just the laws that hold us back are the same for all. At the end of the day, no one knows for sure, that is why it is so fascinating!

I'd suggest to all that are interested to listen to Neil Tyson's podcast, he does an excellent job. Also read his book, Death by Black Hole.

 

[eezycheez]

Are you suggesting that we, the human race at its current stage, is using almost all of the energy the universe has to offer?

As for distance being a factor.... the galaxy is approximately 100,000 light years across. If a probe could travel just 1/10th the speed of light, every planet in the galaxy could be colonized within just a couple of million of years (allowing some time for the bootstrapping process that needs to take place between a probe’s landing on a resource site, setting up the necessary infrastructure, and producing daughter probes). If travel speed were limited to 1% of light speed, colonization might take twenty million years instead. The exact numbers do not matter much because they are at any rate very short compared to the astronomical time scales involved in the evolution of intelligent life from scratch (billions of years).

No, I'm talking about calories. Our brains require an enormous amount...most of our food consumption goes towards our brains...science has shown that the evolution of our brains is slowing due to that reason.

 

[BOSSHOGFREE]

I understand your point however I counter with certain laws of physics we know to be true. Even with our tiny bit of knowledge gained in the time of our existence we can prove certain things through the scientific process. The laws of physics are the universal language that will not change no matter how long a civilization has existed. Of course those civilizations may have a much deeper understanding of those laws and means to harness the energy that we can't even begin to comprehend. Still, the speed of light is the speed of light, it's a constant. The vastness between solar systems, much less galaxies is massively immense. If a civilization could bend space time and move through the universe, they would essentially BE the universe. There is other life in the universe, no doubt in my mind, it's just the laws that hold us back are the same for all. At the end of the day, no one knows for sure, that is why it is so fascinating!

I'd suggest to all that are interested to listen to Neil Tyson's podcast, he does an excellent job. Also read his book, Death by Black Hole.

And how many times has the "laws" of physics been challenged and changed in the last 60 years alone? Einstein proved that space itself is a form and bends or funnels light. Give us 1000 years or a superior race 1 billion years and see what they have learned to be "laws" in their age. We are bound only by our current knowledge advanced as it may be should still be a billion years behind our competition.

Our father's grew up watching TV shows where dumb spies had a phone in their shoes. It couldn't possibly be real to them. Nor could owning the technology of landing on the moon. We now carry smart phones that have a billion times the capabilities of the computers that landed the first vehicle on the moon. This has all happened in one man's lifetime. Now imagine the advances in 11.8 million generations beyond our own.

 

[Blue Hole]

And how many times has the "laws" of physics been challenged and changed in the last 60 years alone? Einstein proved that space itself is a form and bends or funnels light. Give us 1000 years or a superior race 1 billion years and see what they have learned to be "laws" in their age. We are bound only by our current knowledge advanced as it may be should still be a billion years behind our competition.

Our father's grew up watching TV shows where dumb spies had a phone in their shoes. It couldn't possibly be real to them. Nor could owning the technology of landing on the moon. We now carry smart phones that have a billion times the capabilities of the computers that landed the first vehicle on the moon. This has all happened in one man's lifetime. Now imagine the advances in 11.8 million generations beyond our own.

To be honest I don't know of any times the fundamental laws of physics have been changed in the last 60 years. Challenged? Of course, what else is the internet for? Best part about the internet? These very laws we are talking about are why we have the internet for people to challenge said laws!

Parts of Newton's and Maxwell's theories from 100s of years ago are the building blocks for our understanding today. Gravity is still gravity. Energy and thermodynamics are still being observed daily and we now have millions of observations all confirming exactly what the theories presented. This isn't we think the world is flat because that is what we assume it to be, this is observable science backed by the scientific method. If you look at it in that regard it is truly beautiful as it will be the commonality that binds us to all civilizations.

 

[BOSSHOGFREE]

To be honest I don't know of any times the fundamental laws of physics have been changed in the last 60 years. Challenged? Of course, what else is the internet for? Best part about the internet? These very laws we are talking about are why we have the internet for people to challenge said laws!

Parts of Newton's and Maxwell's theories from 100s of years ago are the building blocks for our understanding today. Gravity is still gravity. Energy and thermodynamics are still being observed daily and we now have millions of observations all confirming exactly what the theories presented. This isn't we think the world is flat because that is what we assume it to be, this is observable science backed by the scientific method. If you look at it in that regard it is truly beautiful as it will be the commonality that binds us to all civilizations.

But what of modern day quantum physics is as elementary to our long distant relatives as we know the sun isn't pulled across the sky by a celestial chariot? Because that is what will happen. Einstein has already theorized that space time can be bent, overlapped, and possibly traveled through. He also theorized about layered, multiple, and alternate universes. Both theories would eliminate the time necessary to travel tremendous distances. But that takes incomprehensible power to achieve. That's where exponential technological and intellectual advancements come into play.

 

[eezycheez]

But what of modern day quantum physics is as elementary to our long distant relatives as we know the sun isn't pulled across the sky by a celestial chariot? Because that is what will happen. Einstein has already theorized that space time can be bent, overlapped, and possibly traveled through. He also theorized about layered, multiple, and alternate universes. Both theories would eliminate the time necessary to travel tremendous distances. But that takes incomprehensible power to achieve. That's where exponential technological and intellectual advancements come into play.

The theory you are promoting operates on a lot of assumptions about how things will be or may be billions of years from now for us. It then applies those assumptions to assumed beings from elsewhere that would be billions of years older then us with no extinction event during that time to wipe them out (such as their star burning out).

 

[BOSSHOGFREE]

The theory you are promoting operates on a lot of assumptions about how things will be or may be billions of years from now for us. It then applies those assumptions to assumed beings from elsewhere that would be billions of years older then us with no extinction event during that time to wipe them out (such as their star burning out).

Right and it's well beyond a scientific mathematical probability of zero that this isn't already the case. The math is so large we can't comprehend it. You make my point that what we can't believe won't only occur but be greatly surpassed..... AND the math tells us it should have already happened a million times over. But it hasnt. Science and math in this case prove we are alone. That we are special. That we are chosen. We all have to answer for ourselves two questions. Why? How?

 

[Mayday'90]

No, I'm talking about calories. Our brains require an enormous amount...most of our food consumption goes towards our brains...science has shown that the evolution of our brains is slowing due to that reason.

I see. Thanks for the clarification. To your underlying point, if there were/are advanced civilizations even just a little beyond our own, they will almost certainly no longer be biological (of course, the point of the Fermi Paradox/Great Filter is that if there are other advanced civilizations there should be billions of them, most of whom would be way beyond our current state). We, ourselves, are currently at the beginning of taking over our own evolution to a very large degree. Look at things such as CRISPR, the evolution of nanotechnology, artificial intelligence, etc....

 

[eezycheez]

AI is how we colonize. Not with actual humans traveling. All the need is to carry our DNA and they spread us around.

 

[gbbaber]

This thread is awesome. @BOSSHOGFREE i have been 100% with your theory before, but I also think that there are too many potential hurdles to believe any theory completely. What if no civ has survived long enough to do what you're talking abiut? Or maybe a few have but not one that's relatively close to us. Or maybe our planet was enslaved millions of years ago and they haven't come back yet. Or WE could be the children of an ancient civ. Just a lot of possibilities that pop up once you try to nail it down.
Love the ghost stories.