Can the Hogs hire a better coach than BMFP
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None that have been frequently discussed are as good IMO. This isn't to say one of them can't come here and win, but based on the list and where those coaches are in their careers, I don't see one of Petrino's caliber.
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That's the point. We weren't going to upgrade when we fired Petrino. If you consider him a top 5 coach, look at the other four and you know they aren't leaving their position.
He was absolutely perfect for our situation and limitations.
He was absolutely perfect for our situation and limitations.
I think Peterson is as good, don't think well get him.
This post was edited on 10/22 1:58 PM by Tprice7277
This post was edited on 10/22 1:58 PM by Tprice7277
That's a tough thing to compare.
I am a huge fan of BP the coach. I loved the way we played football, I loved the results, I loved his approach, I loved what I felt like was a plan for the future.
That said, I don't know how he would have done the next 5 years here. And that's really the question. Can the Hogs hire a coach who can do as good over the next five years as BP would've done over the next five years? Which is an impossible question to answer.
If Long had chosen to retain BP, would things have stayed at the same level? Per BP, he is spending all of his time trying to piece his marriage back together. Would that have had an effect on this season? Would the supposedly bad recruiting have finally caught up to him over the next few years? Would his reputation take a further hit and hurt him on the recruiting trail? We know his reputation has hurt him in recruiting before. How are A&M, Ole Miss, and Auburn going to progress over the next few years? How will that affect Arkansas? Is Mullen going to stay at MSU?
So many variables. Some can say (and I can't argue with them) that Petrino would do just fine given all the variables above. Off the field distractions? The guy went 11-2 while having a full blown affair, hiding it from everyone, texting her non-stop during gameweeks and gamedays. Why would repairing his marriage distract him any more than that? Recruiting? He's never been great, and his reputation has always been poor. What's new? Other programs success? He went 10-3 and to the Sugar Bowl when 5 teams in the West finished in the top 15. That's life in the SEC.
Sadly, the only way we are going to get close to getting our answer is if BP gets hired by an Auburn or Tennessee and can directly compared to the guy we hire.
I am a huge fan of BP the coach. I loved the way we played football, I loved the results, I loved his approach, I loved what I felt like was a plan for the future.
That said, I don't know how he would have done the next 5 years here. And that's really the question. Can the Hogs hire a coach who can do as good over the next five years as BP would've done over the next five years? Which is an impossible question to answer.
If Long had chosen to retain BP, would things have stayed at the same level? Per BP, he is spending all of his time trying to piece his marriage back together. Would that have had an effect on this season? Would the supposedly bad recruiting have finally caught up to him over the next few years? Would his reputation take a further hit and hurt him on the recruiting trail? We know his reputation has hurt him in recruiting before. How are A&M, Ole Miss, and Auburn going to progress over the next few years? How will that affect Arkansas? Is Mullen going to stay at MSU?
So many variables. Some can say (and I can't argue with them) that Petrino would do just fine given all the variables above. Off the field distractions? The guy went 11-2 while having a full blown affair, hiding it from everyone, texting her non-stop during gameweeks and gamedays. Why would repairing his marriage distract him any more than that? Recruiting? He's never been great, and his reputation has always been poor. What's new? Other programs success? He went 10-3 and to the Sugar Bowl when 5 teams in the West finished in the top 15. That's life in the SEC.
Sadly, the only way we are going to get close to getting our answer is if BP gets hired by an Auburn or Tennessee and can directly compared to the guy we hire.
Tend to agree with this thread. Not sure we can get a coach as good as we THINK CBP is. But, I agree that we can get a coach in here that can win and win just as well if not better than Petrino. Keep in mind, this was going to be our 'big' year. but, with the defense we saw, not sure how big it would have been. No doubt, better than what we have.
It is damn near impossible to get a better COACH than BP, that is why we have to count on getting a better STAFF and RECRUITERS to make up the difference.
Hate to break it to some of you guys, but no, we can't.
And those of you that point to BP's "indifference" to defense and recruiting, you are off on both counts. He was only here for four years and inspite of his great success in that four years, we were not a finished product yet. In other words, he wasn't finished building yet, and with his last two hires it appeared the D was his next project.
On the recruiting aspect, I'm afraid you guys are setting yourselves up for more disappointment. Been a recruiting addict for decades now, and we have never been a school that could recruit itself to prosperity. Our recruiting didn't drop off under Petrino, it stayed the way it has always been. Such is our recruiting base. Anybody that thinks we will ever compete with Bama, LSU, UF, UGA, OU, or even Auburn by out recruiting them is fooling themselves. We won't, we never have, and we never will w/o cheating in a big way.
We have to out evaluate and out develop those guys, period. We have to be well conditioned, fundamentally sound, better coached, and better prepared. Some schools can do well with less than great coaching by simply putting bigger, faster, and stronger players on the field through recruiting. We will never beat those teams at their own game. Never.
That was what made Petrino such an incredibly great fit for us, he was a great evaluater, great developer, great planner, and simply a great coach. And best of all, he loved it here and had no desire to leave. Nobody on our lists has all of that and we need all of that.
And those of you that point to BP's "indifference" to defense and recruiting, you are off on both counts. He was only here for four years and inspite of his great success in that four years, we were not a finished product yet. In other words, he wasn't finished building yet, and with his last two hires it appeared the D was his next project.
On the recruiting aspect, I'm afraid you guys are setting yourselves up for more disappointment. Been a recruiting addict for decades now, and we have never been a school that could recruit itself to prosperity. Our recruiting didn't drop off under Petrino, it stayed the way it has always been. Such is our recruiting base. Anybody that thinks we will ever compete with Bama, LSU, UF, UGA, OU, or even Auburn by out recruiting them is fooling themselves. We won't, we never have, and we never will w/o cheating in a big way.
We have to out evaluate and out develop those guys, period. We have to be well conditioned, fundamentally sound, better coached, and better prepared. Some schools can do well with less than great coaching by simply putting bigger, faster, and stronger players on the field through recruiting. We will never beat those teams at their own game. Never.
That was what made Petrino such an incredibly great fit for us, he was a great evaluater, great developer, great planner, and simply a great coach. And best of all, he loved it here and had no desire to leave. Nobody on our lists has all of that and we need all of that.
Houston Nutt got us to the SEC championship game a few times. Let that sink in and you'll feel a bit better about life without Petrino.
I think we were going to dip even if BP was here because his recruiting was about to catch up with him. He is an outstanding playcaller and also outstanding at organization. His business all the time attitude on the practice field is a model for peak production. However, the failure to capitalize on our recent success on the field to attract more and better recruits was going to mean that we would not be as successful on the field.
Having said that, the only way we will hire a coach who will eventually be of the overall caliber of BP is one of the up and comers prove to be a star, much like Urban Meyer before he went to Utah.
Having said that, the only way we will hire a coach who will eventually be of the overall caliber of BP is one of the up and comers prove to be a star, much like Urban Meyer before he went to Utah.
Yeah, getting to the SECCG as an unranked underdog during down years in the SECW is way better than being top 5-10, going to BCS bowls, and winning 21 in two years. Way better.
Had we had our last two teams under BP the years that Nutt made the SECCG, we would have won NC's both years or at least played for them. Conveniently overlooked by those of you that like to throw out the SECCG card, is that the winner of the SECW has been NC the last 3 years. The SECW champ wasn't even in the NC picture the years it was us.
This post was edited on 10/22 2:59 PM by rzrbk7777
charlie b barkin,
You putting Nutt in the same sentence or even story as Petrino tells me everything I need to know about your knowledge of football. I cant wait for us to make another BCS bowl, finish the year #5 then be ranked preseason top 10. When do some of you think that will happen again? When will we be ranked #3 going into the final week of college football again???
You putting Nutt in the same sentence or even story as Petrino tells me everything I need to know about your knowledge of football. I cant wait for us to make another BCS bowl, finish the year #5 then be ranked preseason top 10. When do some of you think that will happen again? When will we be ranked #3 going into the final week of college football again???
You also can't forget that these things go in cycles, and coaches find different levels of success at different programs. Steve Spurrier is the first that comes to mind, for example. At one time, he was pretty much the greatest thing since sliced bread. He's obviously still a very good coach, but I don't necessarily consider him elite now. For starters, what is generally considered his strength as a coach is South Carolina's achilles' heel! Then again, that probably says something about his overall abilities to build a program. Which leads me to...
Like someone else said, we won't probably won't find a better gameday or offensive play calling coach, but we could possibly find someone who can build a stronger overall program... better staff, better recruiting, etc.
The game changes too. What works and is in vogue now, will not be what is in vogue in 5-10 years.
Like someone else said, we won't probably won't find a better gameday or offensive play calling coach, but we could possibly find someone who can build a stronger overall program... better staff, better recruiting, etc.
The game changes too. What works and is in vogue now, will not be what is in vogue in 5-10 years.
I don't think we'll be able to get someone who pays attention to detail as well as BP. I don't think we'll be able to get someone with as good an offensive mind as BP.
That being said...BP still had a ways to go to get us to the top of the SEC and a BCS championship. He had us up to a Top 10 program...but we had to step up to undeniable Top 5 to compete with where Bama is right now. Would he have gotten us there? Hard to tell. If we could have improved just a little more on defense and recruiting, we may have gotten there.
What if we get someone in here who's a better recruiter and a better defensive mind...and just a step behind him on offense?
Personally...I imagine we'll get someone who's in between Nutt and Petrino, as far as success will go. 7-5 bad years...10-2 good years...with an occasional run at the West if Bama or LSU are down. Not bad...but not exactly what we all want.
Take Tubs for instance. IMO...he's better than Nutt...but not as good at Petrino.
That being said...BP still had a ways to go to get us to the top of the SEC and a BCS championship. He had us up to a Top 10 program...but we had to step up to undeniable Top 5 to compete with where Bama is right now. Would he have gotten us there? Hard to tell. If we could have improved just a little more on defense and recruiting, we may have gotten there.
What if we get someone in here who's a better recruiter and a better defensive mind...and just a step behind him on offense?
Personally...I imagine we'll get someone who's in between Nutt and Petrino, as far as success will go. 7-5 bad years...10-2 good years...with an occasional run at the West if Bama or LSU are down. Not bad...but not exactly what we all want.
Take Tubs for instance. IMO...he's better than Nutt...but not as good at Petrino.
I think you can make the argument that the next coach will leave the program in better shape after 4+ years than the current pitiful state of our program. So in that sense, yes, you certainly can.
I'll just put it this way, Petrino was the best pure football coach we ever had. Frank was a motivator more than a pure football coach. He surrounded himself with good assistants and played the motivator. Not saying he didn't know a whole heck of a lot. He did.
I'll be surprised if we get a coach as good as Petrino. Maybe a more likeable guy and one who doesn't ride bikes,
I'll be surprised if we get a coach as good as Petrino. Maybe a more likeable guy and one who doesn't ride bikes,
Where did I say Petrino and Nutt were even in the same atmosphere as far as coaching? I am just reminding you guys that Houston Nutt got us to the SEC championship game a few times.
Memphis, you seriously think its impossible to find a new HC that can beat 10 teams on our schedule and get his ass handed to him by Saban on a yearly basis? We get it, you love BP and think he is the greatest thing since sliced bread, and anyone with a differing opinion from you doesn't have a "knowledge of football".
I feel the same way CBB feels and others on the board, BP isnt the only coach that can and will win at Arkansas....And it is fact that HDN has us in the SEC championship twice, BP had us in that game...oh yea thats right, 0.
Another example is Gene Chizik. He's not a great coach, but won the NC on the strength of two players (Newton and Fairley) and one assistant (Gus).
Sheesh...some of you make Petrino out to be the second coming of Christ. There are others out there who can take us to the promised land.
So if that was not your implication, what was your point? What exactly were you trying to say? I read it that since Nutt got to the SECCG and BP didn't, BP must not have done as good a job here as some want to imply. Of course the records, the rankings, the win totals, the status of the rest of the SECW then vs now, were not part of your statement even though should have been.
Oh God No!....It's over, we're history,we're finished,we're done (as in food), we're fodder,we're pushovers,we have no chance,We're gonna be losers,we're pathetic,we'll never win the SEC CHAMPIONSHIP without BOBBY.He is the greatest of them all.I remember Broyles,Hatfield and Holtz,but I'm Nuts because I think we can get better.....I'll be happy with Patterson,Peterson or Tubs and I believe they'll be just as good.If not any of them I'll get back with you later....Hooyaa!
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anon_j0hjgb7us6s1a
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The next HC can give us a huge upgrade in defense and recruiting. Its hard to argue with the last two years but there are several areas the new HC can be a major upgrade over Coach Petrino.
We were in the NC conversation late in the 2006 season (birth of the Wildcat offense). Before that 1998 (should've beat Tennessee and who knows what would've happened).
What has Chizik done without GM? And I'm by no means a Malzahn guy...but give credit where credit is due.
I've thought for quite some time that BP was one of the top coaches in football, so I don't think it's likely we can find a better coach. However, that's not to say we can't find a very good coach who can win big. It's not like Petrino didn't have his flaws & if some of the stories I've heard are correct some of our own players were discouraging recruits from coming here because they couldn't stand BP. (I have no way of knowing if that's true, but I've heard it a couple of times & it appears consistent with some other things I've heard about him.) Regardless, it's hard to think we can improve on the coach we had. However, the coach we had made it virtually impossible to keep him. A lot of people disagree with that, I know, but on balance I don't think Long had much choice.
So now there's nothing really to gain by asking if we can do better than we had. All we can do is hope for the best available. It's not like we've done badly before. We've had some coaches who've won big here. We just need one who can win big & keep his focus.
So now there's nothing really to gain by asking if we can do better than we had. All we can do is hope for the best available. It's not like we've done badly before. We've had some coaches who've won big here. We just need one who can win big & keep his focus.
The only areas that count in the grand scheme of things is the W-L record and the final rankings. Everything else, recruiting, focus on defense, etc., mean nothing if not reflected in wins and rankings.Originally posted by MR_:
The next HC can give us a huge upgrade in defense and recruiting. Its hard to argue with the last two years but there are several areas the new HC can be a major upgrade over Coach Petrino.
What were we ranked at the end of those years? Nutt was sometimes great out of the gate, but his teams always tailed off at the end of the year. Getting close to the promised land requires finishing the season w/o a string of losses.
By the same token, what did Gus or Chiz do w/o Cam and Fairley?
1.) Nutt's teams started fast and finished slow...OK...well, BP's teams started slow and finished fast (except for that pesky LSU beatdown last year). My point is that the right coach can take us where we need to go...we're not as far away as a team like Ole Miss, Baylor, etc. I mean, hell, HDN had us right there in 1998. So it's fair to say there are others out there who can do the same thing. (P.S. HDN and BP will always be the same in one regard...they never got us over "the hump")
2.) That's my point exactly. Chizik won the NC because of two players and a coach...not because he's a coaching genius (as apparently BP is). It's a little luck with a lot of hard work. You're trying to make this into an argument over Gus Malzahn and that wasn't my point. My point is that if Chizik can do it...someone not named BP can do it at Arkansas.
Originally posted by rzrbk7777:
The only areas that count in the grand scheme of things is the W-L record and the final rankings. Everything else, recruiting, focus on defense, etc., mean nothing if not reflected in wins and rankings.Originally posted by MR_
The next HC can give us a huge upgrade in defense and recruiting. Its hard to argue with the last two years but there are several areas the new HC can be a major upgrade over Coach Petrino.
Do you understand the great contradiction with which you just posted? What are the two main things that kept Petrino from staying within 3tds of Bama? Defense and recruiting because you can't depend on offense to win in this league every week. You making the assertion that much better defense and recruiting won't in fact have play a big role in wins and losses is funny. Take off your CBP monogrammed glasses for a moment.
Five years from now not one person will wish BP had been fired. 20 years in the SEC and we never got to the level BP had us at. Amazing considering he was overrated, a lousy recruiter and didn't care about defense..
And that brings me back to the question, where is the promised land to you? To me, it is a NC. At least being in contention. Nutt did get us close in 98. 8-0 and in control for most of the Tenn game. 06 was another potential great year killed by the gus/SD5 drama. Neither team finished in the top 15. Other than that, you have to go back to 89 to see us looked at as a contender by anybody. That is what I find so sickening about all of this. I actually enjoyed watching SC the last two years, looked forward to the BCS rankings, paid close attention to what other ranked teams were doing, etc. It was great.
I've seen very little of that since the 70's. Very little. I hate to see some of the young guys on here trivialize it and act like it is a UA entitlement that we deserve and will have again in short order. It's not that easy, and history has made that very clear. It amazes me that so many put so little regard toward the realities that history teaches us simply b/c it's not what they want to believe.
Not wanting to argue over Gus, but if he never gets anymore credit for stuff he didn't do, he will have still already gotten more credit than he's ever earned.
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