Can the Hogs hire a better coach than BMFP

[MR_ARKANSAS]

Originally posted by Gosnell Hawg:
Five years from now not one person will wish BP had been fired. 20 years in the SEC and we never got to the level BP had us at. Amazing considering he was overrated, a lousy recruiter and didn't care about defense..

Way to overexaggerate because I don't see anyone saying those things at all. I see people sharing the same concerns they did when he was coach. We can land a coach who recruits much better and plays much better defense. We may not have the offense to blow out lesser teams like we do now but we could have the athletes and defense to compete with the top tier teams.

 

[swarkhogfan]

no

 

[rzrbk7777]

Originally posted by MR_:

Originally posted by Gosnell Hawg:
Five years from now not one person will wish BP had been fired. 20 years in the SEC and we never got to the level BP had us at. Amazing considering he was overrated, a lousy recruiter and didn't care about defense..

Way to overexaggerate because I don't see anyone saying those things at all. I see people sharing the same concerns they did when he was coach. We can land a coach who recruits much better and plays much better defense. We may not have the offense to blow out lesser teams like we do now but we could have the athletes and defense to compete with the top tier teams.

Really? My concerns the last two years were where we were ranked, playing in a BCS bowl, and what it would take to get the rest of the way to the top from number 5. This year my concerns are not being totally humiliated vs top teams, finding a way to win enough to get to Shreveport or Memphis, and somehow lucking into another coach who will put my concerns back to where they were last year. I don't give a flip about getting a coach who gets better ranked recruits or who focuses more on D if it doesn't translate to more wins than we were used to before two years ago.

You guys keep harping on the little picture, Petrino's recruiting and D w/o giving much credence to the big picture, which is W's, rankings, and being relevant nationally, which is the picture BP seemed to see quite well.

 

[HogInAla]

Likely no.

Patterson or Peterson maybe.

 

[MR_ARKANSAS]

Just to complete the cycle of contradicting hypocrisy......what are those concerns you think we needed to fix to get from 5 to the top???? You already know the answer. I just want to see you post it for laughs.

 

[thetus]

Once again 7777s doing work. Sad as it is it will take alot of luck to climb back to where we were. Those of you mentioning the SEC championship games under Nutt, really? We were in the top three in the nation last year. Playing in the best division of the best conference in football. I hope I end up being wrong, but it looks like mediocrity for a little while.

 

[stl590]

No. That's the answer to the question. Petrino is a top 5 Coach. Just not a top five person unfortunately. It will be our loss in the end.

 

[HawgsRUs]

Originally posted by rzrbk7777:

Originally posted by MR_:

Originally posted by Gosnell Hawg:
Five years from now not one person will wish BP had been fired. 20 years in the SEC and we never got to the level BP had us at. Amazing considering he was overrated, a lousy recruiter and didn't care about defense..

Way to overexaggerate because I don't see anyone saying those things at all. I see people sharing the same concerns they did when he was coach. We can land a coach who recruits much better and plays much better defense. We may not have the offense to blow out lesser teams like we do now but we could have the athletes and defense to compete with the top tier teams.

Really? My concerns the last two years were where we were ranked, playing in a BCS bowl, and what it would take to get the rest of the way to the top from number 5. This year my concerns are not being totally humiliated vs top teams, finding a way to win enough to get to Shreveport or Memphis, and somehow lucking into another coach who will put my concerns back to where they were last year. I don't give a flip about getting a coach who gets better ranked recruits or who focuses more on D if it doesn't translate to more wins than we were used to before two years ago.

You guys keep harping on the little picture, Petrino's recruiting and D w/o giving much credence to the big picture, which is W's, rankings, and being relevant nationally, which is the picture BP seemed to see quite well.

It is amazing how much you are dominating the pumpers, but they keep going, and going, and going... Just makes me laugh and literally shake my head in wonderment...

 

[rzrbk7777]

Originally posted by MR_:
Just to complete the cycle of contradicting hypocrisy......what are those concerns you think we needed to fix to get from 5 to the top???? You already know the answer. I just want to see you post it for laughs.

Cycle of contradicting hypocrisy? Care to elaborate? You know, just for laughs.

 

[hawgclucker]

Bobby is a top 5 coach and just does not fit at this campus on the hill , but he will fit very well in another campus
that slaps us in the face each year and will not call off the eagles but will down the ball at the 1 yard line and smile

 

[hpharri1994]

Can we hire a better coach? Almost certainly not. Can we hire a coach that can accomplish as much or more than Petrino did? I think so. Petrino had 2 very good seasons here. We weren't close to winning a national championship in either. If Petrino is still the coach right now, we are probably 5-2. We probably go 8-4 instead of 6-6 or 5-7. Next year would be a struggle. We lose a lot and don't have many big time players waiting to step in. The overall talent level isn't where it needs to be if we are expecting 10 win seasons. I don't care if Petrino was still here. This isn't a 10 win football team no matter who is coaching. Next year is probably a .500 team at best. I guarantee there would have been a ton of fans complaining about Petrino after next season. We have to recruit better. That is undeniable. If we want any kind of sustained success then we have get a coach in here that can recruit at a very high level. Make all the excuses you want, but for this program to get to where most of us want it to be that has to happen. The only way we don't experience a huge drop off from BP is to get a very good coach in here that can recruit his ass off. What we will lose in pure x's and o's coaching ability has to be made up in other areas because it is highly unlikely that we can find someone that is on BP's level in that area.

 

[RazorAg]

Probably not.

Although, I'm inclined to think it through like mikedamone. Hard to measure, considering CBP's short stints here and other places.

 

[HogAnalyst]

I know Petrino seemed like he was on an upswing to a national championship, finished at #5 and I was all in on the BP train, but when it comes to pure wins and losses over 4 years it's not like it was so great, god like that another coach couldn't replicate it. Some numbers...

Can we hire a 4 year coach that can go 5-7, 8-5, 10-3 and 11-2 with an OT win over East Carolina in Liberty avoiding the loss due to EC 3 missed FGs, a loss to Ohio State in "tatgate" turmoil in the Sugar and a win over KSU in the Cotton? Yes.

Can we hire a coach that can match BP's 10-12 record against ranked teams and was 17-15 against SEC teams over 4 years? Yes.

...hell, Nutt was 16-15 in his last 4 years, Tuberville was 20-12 in his last 4 years. BP was 2-2 vs. Nutt at Ole MIss. BP's Defense average was ranked #58 in the nation, Offense average #33. His Rivals Recruiting average was #31. Turnover margin average was #52, even. Offense Defense margin of victory average 4 years was 32.8-25.5=6.3pts. Only 6.3pts. Petrino was 14.6 last year, his best. I like margin of victory as a measuring stick.

Bama's 4 year average was 33.2-11.9=21.3pts fyi. Franklin at Vandy last year was 26.7-21.6=5.1pts. Tubberville this year in regulation is 40.0-19.6=20.4pts, Muschamp is 30-12=18pts, Mullen 36.7-14.4= 22.3pts, Strong 32.4-21.9=10.5pts, Holgerson 41.1-39.9=1.2pts, Snyder 42.9-16.1=26.8pts. Everyone knows you win on the road with defense so take Mississippi State/Mullen at Bama this weekend to stay within 23.5pts! Take the 60pt under on KSU/TT...

Yes, we can hire a coach that can in 4 years can put up these Petrino type numbers in the SEC. We can also find a coach that can lose to Saban/Bama 4 years in a row. We can actually hire TT who is 4-3 vs. Saban, not a bad default if needed.

So, if we can get a HC that can recruit better (at least on Defense) and coach a Defense to a sub 20 points per game average then we will be in business for 10+ win seasons!

 

[rzrbk7777]

Originally posted by MR_:

Originally posted by rzrbk7777:

Originally posted by MR_:
The next HC can give us a huge upgrade in defense and recruiting. Its hard to argue with the last two years but there are several areas the new HC can be a major upgrade over Coach Petrino.

The only areas that count in the grand scheme of things is the W-L record and the final rankings. Everything else, recruiting, focus on defense, etc., mean nothing if not reflected in wins and rankings.

Do you understand the great contradiction with which you just posted? What are the two main things that kept Petrino from staying within 3tds of Bama? Defense and recruiting because you can't depend on offense to win in this league every week. You making the assertion that much better defense and recruiting won't in fact have play a big role in wins and losses is funny. Take off your CBP monogrammed glasses for a moment.

Didn't see this one, but thanks for the enlightenment. One small problem with your theory though. We are not going to beat Bama by creating a better defensive system than they have and outrecruiting them. We aren't going to out-defend Saban and we have nowhere near the recruiting base or recruiting system that they have, yet you are contending we should beat them by trying to be better than them at what they do better than anybody. Great plan. We beat Bama at their own game. They will be through when this gets out. Can't imagine why nobody has tried that before.

I guess this is where I should tell you to take off your Jeff Long jock strap for a moment?

 

[MR_ARKANSAS]

Originally posted by rzrbk7777:

Originally posted by MR_:
Just to complete the cycle of contradicting hypocrisy......what are those concerns you think we needed to fix to get from 5 to the top???? You already know the answer. I just want to see you post it for laughs.

Cycle of contradicting hypocrisy? Care to elaborate? You know, just for laughs.

This is hilarious....you say you were conerned with how we could get from "top 5 to the top". What was causing those concerns? It couldn't have been better overall recruiting and much better defense since those obviously weren't your concerns....its all about wins and losses at the end of the day. Share your wisdom. Dominating who with what? Broad cliche' statements. Please be nore detailed sir.

 

[Charlie B Barkin]

Hell, Houston Nutt won a Cotton Bowl at Ole Miss, which also happens to be the best Petrino did here. Not saying Nutt is a better coach, just sayin...

 

[MR_ARKANSAS]

Where did I say we would outrecruit Bama? Where did I say we would out-defend them? Who said that? I didn't say any of the stuff you are responding to. Also, what does Jeff Long have to do with the notion that we can find a coach who recruits much better and fields much better defenses which me give us a chance of being in close games late. Which in turn gives us a chance to win?

 

[ksmathis]

Better at coaching alone I say no. Better coach / recruiter combo I say yes. Hopefully they even out. I don't think that is unrealistic.

 

[TJ Hawg]

A lot of denial on this board.

 

[Texomahog]

NO

 

[bcranebcrane]

We should hire Lance Armstrong to coach our cycling team too. I hear he is available.

 

[HawgsRUs]

Here you go honey...

A nice steamy slice of Moral Pie...

 

[bcranebcrane]

I can always count on you HRS. Cannot even appreciate a little humor tonight?

 

[HawgsRUs]

Originally posted by bcranebcrane:
I can always count on you HRS. Cannot even appreciate a little humor tonight?

Oh BCBC come on! I just wanted to post the gagpic & you were an easy shot...

Kinda funny though, huh?

 

[bcranebcrane]

I'll throw you another bone. Would you hire Kiffin if his sfaff came with him why or why not?

 

[Hawgindawz]

rzrbk7777 Do you really believe that everything was going to be as it was this year with BP after everything came out? He was going to be dealing with lots of issues and some of those issues even related to football because it was definitely going to hurt recruiting as it was going to be tougher and tougher to get into the front rooms of necessary athletes because some parents actually care a lot about the character of the coach they're sending their kids off to play for. It was going to hurt discipline on the team because "do as I say not as I do" doesn't always work well. Add to that the fact that we struggled with other teams in the SEC than just Bama and LSU and all those teams seem to have upgraded their own coaching; see A&M, Ole Miss, Miss. St. and Vanderbilt just to name a few. BP was a great coach and maybe he'd be able to overcome all of that and maybe we'd have won another 10 or 11 games this year but it's doubtful considering everything. Will we find someone as good as BP? I can't say for sure but there are a lot of programs around that found good coaches to lead their programs successfully and I don't see why we couldn't come up with one of our own considering our facilities (next to none) and the other resources that are available now. The SEC west upgraded all over the place and it wasn't going to be easy this year for BP to duplicate the success that he's had the last couple of years. Could he have done it? Maybe because he was a good coach but there was an awful lot to overcome of his own doing this time around and I think there would have been a drop off and it might've lasted for a little while before everything calmed down and got back to normal. If it just affected recruiting for a couple of years what would that have done to the program?

 

[Gosnell Hawg]

I never realized Mr. was so delusional, damn. If you really haven't seen people saying Petrino didn't care about defense or was a lousy recruiter I can only figure you have one severe case of ADD.

 

[HawgsRUs]

No...

More personal that anything. And I know there are comparisons to Petrino that come up, but I think they are very different people.

Kiffins arrogance is chafing. Its unearned. He just rubs me the wrong way. I realize he is a talented coach, and a good recruiter. But I just would not like him as our coach.



Tennessee Recruiting....

This is Kiffin

 

[rzrbk7777]

Originally posted by MR_:

Originally posted by rzrbk7777:

Originally posted by MR_:
Just to complete the cycle of contradicting hypocrisy......what are those concerns you think we needed to fix to get from 5 to the top???? You already know the answer. I just want to see you post it for laughs.

Cycle of contradicting hypocrisy? Care to elaborate? You know, just for laughs.

This is hilarious....you say you were conerned with how we could get from "top 5 to the top". What was causing those concerns? It couldn't have been better overall recruiting and much better defense since those obviously weren't your concerns....its all about wins and losses at the end of the day. Share your wisdom. Dominating who with what? Broad cliche' statements. Please be nore detailed sir.

Well, you see, there is 1, and then there is two, and it goes all the way down to 25. Now, if you are say, 5, you aspire to be number one. If you are say, 24, you aspire to get in the top 15, and so on until you get close to the top, and then you start aspiring to that. That's what I was concerned with.

Two things that tend to be assumed as fact that likely aren't:

1. That Petrino had peaked in his 4th year and was finished building the program. That, even with his obvious knowledge of the game he somehow did not want to build a D to go with his 0. Any of you really think BP was going to spend the next 7-8 years a defense away from a NC and somehow oblivious to what the problem was?

2. That Saban and Bama will always rule. They won't. Unless they do something that has never happened before. It sure looks like they will, but it has looked that way with lots of programs over the years and they all fell eventually. Right now it's their turn but it won't last.

And that's the main thing that has to happen to move up, the guys above you have slide down while you don't. The first thing you have to do is get into a position to slide around them. We did that. And now not. Blame it on recruiting or the defense that we weren't at the top(kind of silly since unless you are 60 you've never seen us on top), but we were as close as we've been in 34 years and that is a bigger feat than you seem to realize. And none of us had any reason to think we would before April.

 

[rzrbk7777]

Originally posted by Hawgindawz:
rzrbk7777 Do you really believe that everything was going to be as it was this year with BP after everything came out? He was going to be dealing with lots of issues and some of those issues even related to football because it was definitely going to hurt recruiting as it was going to be tougher and tougher to get into the front rooms of necessary athletes because some parents actually care a lot about the character of the coach they're sending their kids off to play for. It was going to hurt discipline on the team because "do as I say not as I do" doesn't always work well. Add to that the fact that we struggled with other teams in the SEC than just Bama and LSU and all those teams seem to have upgraded their own coaching; see A&M, Ole Miss, Miss. St. and Vanderbilt just to name a few. BP was a great coach and maybe he'd be able to overcome all of that and maybe we'd have won another 10 or 11 games this year but it's doubtful considering everything. Will we find someone as good as BP? I can't say for sure but there are a lot of programs around that found good coaches to lead their programs successfully and I don't see why we couldn't come up with one of our own considering our facilities (next to none) and the other resources that are available now. The SEC west upgraded all over the place and it wasn't going to be easy this year for BP to duplicate the success that he's had the last couple of years. Could he have done it? Maybe because he was a good coach but there was an awful lot to overcome of his own doing this time around and I think there would have been a drop off and it might've lasted for a little while before everything calmed down and got back to normal. If it just affected recruiting for a couple of years what would that have done to the program?

So, you reckon recruiting is going great now?

 

[HawgsRUs]

Originally posted by Hawgindawz:
rzrbk7777 Do you really believe that everything was going to be as it was this year with BP after everything came out? He was going to be dealing with lots of issues and some of those issues even related to football because it was definitely going to hurt recruiting as it was going to be tougher and tougher to get into the front rooms of necessary athletes because some parents actually care a lot about the character of the coach they're sending their kids off to play for. It was going to hurt discipline on the team because "do as I say not as I do" doesn't always work well. Add to that the fact that we struggled with other teams in the SEC than just Bama and LSU and all those teams seem to have upgraded their own coaching; see A&M, Ole Miss, Miss. St. and Vanderbilt just to name a few. BP was a great coach and maybe he'd be able to overcome all of that and maybe we'd have won another 10 or 11 games this year but it's doubtful considering everything. Will we find someone as good as BP? I can't say for sure but there are a lot of programs around that found good coaches to lead their programs successfully and I don't see why we couldn't come up with one of our own considering our facilities (next to none) and the other resources that are available now. The SEC west upgraded all over the place and it wasn't going to be easy this year for BP to duplicate the success that he's had the last couple of years. Could he have done it? Maybe because he was a good coach but there was an awful lot to overcome of his own doing this time around and I think there would have been a drop off and it might've lasted for a little while before everything calmed down and got back to normal. If it just affected recruiting for a couple of years what would that have done to the program?

You're right...

There were FOUR coaches ranked above Petrino at the end of last year...He finished #5. Whats our odds of getting any one of those 4?

Year before, there were 11....He finished #12. (#8 pre bowl and if you remember, the team we played was later put on probation and coach fired for lying to keep core players from being kicked out of football).

You are a smart and realistic guy HID...do you HONESTLY think we are going to duplicate those results soon under the next coach? Honestly?

 

[Hawgindawz]

Gee, I don't remember saying that but then again we seldom have 25 recruits lined up in October so it's hard to tell. Lack of a head coach will slow things down for awhile, we'll have to wait and see what it looks like in the end but it doesn't look much different than it usually does at this point.

 

[Gosnell Hawg]

Hawgs don't you know we have a rich history of those results?? Top 5? Way to far from #1 to ever close the gap. You act like we have spent the past 20 years praying for one week in the top 25.

 

[Hawgindawz]

No Hawgs, I don't think that we will duplicate that immediately but we could get a coach who would be a great stabilizing force and get us moving in the right direction. My contention is simply that we have amazing facilities, nice resources to work with and there are good solid coaches out there and if our SEC West brethren can get good coaches then we should be able to do so as well. BP was a rare talent wrapped up in a mess of a person, he had a wonderful offensive mind and I'm not sure there were many better at calling a game from the sidelines but having said that he had areas that were deficient as well. I want an energetic, young coach with some of BPs flair for offense and with a background of solid defense. One that is a high energy recruiter that can close the deal with a few stud athletes, especially the instate few that are available. I don't know who that is but I don't believe that it's a Tuberville or Jones, not trying to cut either of them, it's just someone else. It'll take time but I don't see us falling into the abyss that so many mention on here and I don't think it'll take another decade to get back up to where we want to be, relevant again. I don't believe that BP is the only person who could do that here, there has to be others.

 

[HawgsRUs]

Originally posted by Hawgindawz:
No Hawgs, I don't think that we will duplicate that immediately but we could get a coach who would be a great stabilizing force and get us moving in the right direction. My contention is simply that we have amazing facilities, nice resources to work with and there are good solid coaches out there and if our SEC West brethren can get good coaches then we should be able to do so as well. BP was a rare talent wrapped up in a mess of a person, he had a wonderful offensive mind and I'm not sure there were many better at calling a game from the sidelines but having said that he had areas that were deficient as well. I want an energetic, young coach with some of BPs flair for offense and with a background of solid defense. One that is a high energy recruiter that can close the deal with a few stud athletes, especially the instate few that are available. I don't know who that is but I don't believe that it's a Tuberville or Jones, not trying to cut either of them, it's just someone else. It'll take time but I don't see us falling into the abyss that so many mention on here and I don't think it'll take another decade to get back up to where we want to be, relevant again. I don't believe that BP is the only person who could do that here, there has to be others.

I'm not trying to put you on the spot....but being "relevant" vs being "elite" like we were is a huge gap...IMO.

"So you're saying there is a chance"?

 

[Charlie B Barkin]

Originally posted by HawgsRUs:

Originally posted by Hawgindawz:
No Hawgs, I don't think that we will duplicate that immediately but we could get a coach who would be a great stabilizing force and get us moving in the right direction. My contention is simply that we have amazing facilities, nice resources to work with and there are good solid coaches out there and if our SEC West brethren can get good coaches then we should be able to do so as well. BP was a rare talent wrapped up in a mess of a person, he had a wonderful offensive mind and I'm not sure there were many better at calling a game from the sidelines but having said that he had areas that were deficient as well. I want an energetic, young coach with some of BPs flair for offense and with a background of solid defense. One that is a high energy recruiter that can close the deal with a few stud athletes, especially the instate few that are available. I don't know who that is but I don't believe that it's a Tuberville or Jones, not trying to cut either of them, it's just someone else. It'll take time but I don't see us falling into the abyss that so many mention on here and I don't think it'll take another decade to get back up to where we want to be, relevant again. I don't believe that BP is the only person who could do that here, there has to be others.

I'm not trying to put you on the spot....but being "relevant" vs being "elite" like we were is a huge gap...IMO.

"So you're saying there is a chance"?

We were not elite. We were very good but not elite.

 

[Gosnell Hawg]

Close sugar bowl loss to a cheating team one year and top 5 finish the next? Only the teams in the NC elite to you?

 

[HawgsRUs]

Originally posted by Charlie B Barkin:

Originally posted by HawgsRUs:

Originally posted by Hawgindawz:
No Hawgs, I don't think that we will duplicate that immediately but we could get a coach who would be a great stabilizing force and get us moving in the right direction. My contention is simply that we have amazing facilities, nice resources to work with and there are good solid coaches out there and if our SEC West brethren can get good coaches then we should be able to do so as well. BP was a rare talent wrapped up in a mess of a person, he had a wonderful offensive mind and I'm not sure there were many better at calling a game from the sidelines but having said that he had areas that were deficient as well. I want an energetic, young coach with some of BPs flair for offense and with a background of solid defense. One that is a high energy recruiter that can close the deal with a few stud athletes, especially the instate few that are available. I don't know who that is but I don't believe that it's a Tuberville or Jones, not trying to cut either of them, it's just someone else. It'll take time but I don't see us falling into the abyss that so many mention on here and I don't think it'll take another decade to get back up to where we want to be, relevant again. I don't believe that BP is the only person who could do that here, there has to be others.

I'm not trying to put you on the spot....but being "relevant" vs being "elite" like we were is a huge gap...IMO.

"So you're saying there is a chance"?

We were not elite. We were very good but not elite.

We absolutely were Elite...by any definition...there were FOUR teams above us last year, ELEVEN the year before.

You need to do a reality check Charlie...no jokes, no pictures...just get real.

 

[Danny West]

Short answer is no, Arkansas cannot find a better coach than it had. Nobody likes hearing that but it's the truth.

 

[WhiskeyDrunk]

Mr. Arkansas, I do think Petrino had shifted his focus more to recruiting defensive studs in his last class. See Turner, Peters, Winston, Wise, Philon, Johnson, Lowe, Buchanan, Hines, and Flynn. I go back and forth in my mind debating if he peaked or not. He whiffed so bad on that 2010 class, it isn't even funny. One bad class can set you back, and we will feel that next year. On the flip, we look like we could make some serious noise in 014 with the right hire because of the guys listed above.

One thing is certain, he isn't as smart as we all give him credit for. He makes horrendous decisions in his personal life that have killed his public image at every stop he has made.