OT Religious thread do not open if easily offended.

[shnuke]

Doing your job by baking a cake is not support of sin nor does it condone sin. It's a cake. Again if you refuse to see the word of God as it relates to the food made specifically for idolatry worship then you have no desire to follow God's word. Making your own set of beliefs up amd living a partial Christian life is not what God wants

Revelations 3: 15-16
15 “‘I know your works: you are neither cold nor hot. I Would that you were either cold or hot!16 So, because you are lukewarm, and neither hot nor cold, I will spit you out of my mouth.

The scripture you provided proves my point and not yours. You cannot preach to the wicked if you force then away, if you cannot find ground to speak on, you cannot love them (part of love is challenging then with their sin) if you do not have a relationship with them.

Also stop trying to aplly old covenant law to new covenant theological practice. If you belueve what you are typing you must also never plant 2 different seeds in the same field. Are you or your relative farmers all sinners? Or is there a new covenant? Better stop eating home grown veggies from a small garden or you are condoning sin.... yeah,no

Ok since you can't seem to spear ate the sinful act from food and idol worship lets approach it this way.

God said to Peter do not say what I have made clean is unclean.
He said what is sacrificed to false gods is (idols is good to eat) so you would be ok eating the cake that you didn't participate in.
Now sticking to your idol food topic. What if a pagan came into your store and said I need a Male bull and a calf delivered to our temple next Saturday so we can sacrifice it to the sun god on our pegan idol. Do you think it is ok to assist them by providing the food to them for there idol worship?
Hey it is just food!
Ephesians 5: 10-12
10 try to learn what is pleasing to the Lord.
11Do not participate in the unfruitful deeds of darkness, but instead even expose them;
12for it is disgraceful even to speak of the things which are done by them in secret.
17So then do not be foolish, but understand what the will of the Lord is.


I will leave this here and let you live by what you think is right.
May the lord bless you and keep you.

 

[BOSSHOGFREE]

Ok since you can't seem to spear ate the sinful act from food and idol worship lets approach it this way.

God said to Peter do not say what I have made clean is unclean.
He said what is sacrificed to false gods is (idols is good to eat) so you would be ok eating the cake that you didn't participate in.
Now sticking to your idol food topic. What if a pagan came into your store and said I need a Male bull and a calf delivered to our temple next Saturday so we can sacrifice it to the sun god on our pegan idol. Do you think it is ok to assist them by providing the food to them for there idol worship?
Hey it is just food!
Ephesians 5: 10-12
10 try to learn what is pleasing to the Lord.
11Do not participate in the unfruitful deeds of darkness, but instead even expose them;
12for it is disgraceful even to speak of the things which are done by them in secret.
17So then do not be foolish, but understand what the will of the Lord is.


I will leave this here and let you live by what you think is right.
May the lord bless you and keep you.

Selling them the bull to kill is not the same as worshiping it or participating in its sacrifice. What if you took the money they paid for the animal and then gave it to the poor?

The owner then took from satan and gave to Jesus.

The shop owner isn't worshiping a false God. Not only that but he may build a relationship with the men to earn their trust and then preach them the word of God.

We are not God we are human. By that very definition you have sin in your life. No better than homosexuals. Not one bit. The only thing that seperates you and I from non believers is just that... we believe. It is God's grace that saves us not our deeds. Our deeds are important but only as a caused effect of our belief and desire to show Jesus' love. They why matters more than the what. The lost sinner matters more than the cake.

 

[BOSSHOGFREE]

If a baker wants to end this issue in their shop it is a simple fix. Only sell cakes that have a scriptuarl Christian blessing on them. Every cake is a blessing from God that they seek and find him. Every single cake.

Then no matter who walks through that door you are telling them you love them as Christ loves them and you want them to find him. Regardless of what the customer wants or how they would use it they get Gods love. Jist in the same was as we are given life, free will, and love from God to then do as we please with.

Who could argue the very model God has given us for our own lives.

But that doesn't fit the ideal of judgment that fellow Christians have made acceptable in our society, bastardizing the word of God, when judgement of the world is not and never will be acceptable.

 

[SOPA]

If you are for Freedom of religion then you also should accept freedom from religion

 

[BOSSHOGFREE]

If you are for Freedom of religion then you also should accept freedom from religion

Incorrect. I have the freedom to choose if I want to drive a car or not. That doesn't mean if I choose not to drive one because I believe they are harmful to the environment that I can force everyone else around me not to drive a car. Nor does it mean that I get to demand that I shouldnt even see a car in a public place. It just means that I don't have to drive a car if I don't want to.

Sae applies for religion. You have the freedom to practice no religion at all. But you do not get to determine how others apply faith in their lives. Privately or publicly.

 

[rzrbk7777]

If you are for Freedom of religion then you also should accept freedom from religion

And how don't you have freedom from religion? Who forces you to go to church? Who forces you to pray? When is the last time you got into trouble for being an atheist? Who denies you anything b/c of your lack of beliefs? Please explain what rights you have been denied b/c you are what you are?

OTOH, how have you ever been harmed by a nativity scene on a courthouse lawn at Christmas? What emotional scars do you have from In God We Trust being on the money you spend? And why? How has the Ten Commandments being displayed in public buildings changed your life for the worst or denied you the right to believe as you choose? What is a coach kneeling at midfield after a ball game and giving quiet thanks to God done that is so deplorable to you?

Please give all of the examples of how you have been persecuted b/c you live among Christians.

Our country was founded under Christian beliefs. Our forefathers came to this country(started this country) so as not to be persecuted and told what their religion had to be. All so they didn't have to hide in silence to excerise their beliefs as they choose. They also made it a very important thing that nobody HAD to believe as they did to live peacefully in this country. That never meant in any way that they were supposed to hide their own beliefs or pretend that we were not founded under the principles and beliefs that they brought with them, only that the government was not to force anybody to believe if they didn't want to. Look it up. Study it.

Somehow that has morphed into a new faction of whiners and complainers hellbent(yeah, that's on purpose) on stifling any and all that believe in anything. A faction looking hard to be offended when they can just as easily live and let live as they were allowed to do. You don't want to live and let live, which has served this country well since it's inception. No, you want to be offended over stuff that never harmed you. You want to shut anybody up that dares have beliefs that you don't understand. How pathetic of you. And how wrong.

 

[jpenrod86]

And how don't you have freedom from religion? Who forces you to go to church? Who forces you to pray? When is the last time you got into trouble for being an atheist? Who denies you anything b/c of your lack of beliefs? Please explain what rights you have been denied b/c you are what you are?

OTOH, how have you ever been harmed by a nativity scene on a courthouse lawn at Christmas? What emotional scars do you have from In God We Trust being on the money you spend? And why? How has the Ten Commandments being displayed in public buildings changed your life for the worst or denied you the right to believe as you choose? What is a coach kneeling at midfield after a ball game and giving quiet thanks to God done that is so deplorable to you?

Please give all of the examples of how you have been persecuted b/c you live among Christians.

Our country was founded under Christian beliefs. Our forefathers came to this country(started this country) so as not to be persecuted and told what their religion had to be. All so they didn't have to hide in silence to excerise their beliefs as they choose. They also made it a very important thing that nobody HAD to believe as they did to live peacefully in this country. That never meant in any way that they were supposed to hide their own beliefs or pretend that we were not founded under the principles and beliefs that they brought with them, only that the government was not to force anybody to believe if they didn't want to. Look it up. Study it.

Somehow that has morphed into a new faction of whiners and complainers hellbent(yeah, that's on purpose) on stifling any and all that believe in anything. A faction looking hard to be offended when they can just as easily live and let live as they were allowed to do. You don't want to live and let live, which has served this country well since it's inception. No, you want to be offended over stuff that never harmed you. You want to shut anybody up that dares have beliefs that you don't understand. How pathetic of you. And how wrong.

True, we were always meant to be a nation built on Christian beliefs. We just were allowing people to live here with other beliefs if they wanted to.

The founding Fathers used Scripture as a basis for the laws they wrote. They even used "natural law" , defined by them as "laws of the creator", to build the Constitution.

 

[SOPA]

And how don't you have freedom from religion? Who forces you to go to church? Who forces you to pray? When is the last time you got into trouble for being an atheist? Who denies you anything b/c of your lack of beliefs? Please explain what rights you have been denied b/c you are what you are?

OTOH, how have you ever been harmed by a nativity scene on a courthouse lawn at Christmas? What emotional scars do you have from In God We Trust being on the money you spend? And why? How has the Ten Commandments being displayed in public buildings changed your life for the worst or denied you the right to believe as you choose? What is a coach kneeling at midfield after a ball game and giving quiet thanks to God done that is so deplorable to you?

Please give all of the examples of how you have been persecuted b/c you live among Christians.

Our country was founded under Christian beliefs. Our forefathers came to this country(started this country) so as not to be persecuted and told what their religion had to be. All so they didn't have to hide in silence to excerise their beliefs as they choose. They also made it a very important thing that nobody HAD to believe as they did to live peacefully in this country. That never meant in any way that they were supposed to hide their own beliefs or pretend that we were not founded under the principles and beliefs that they brought with them, only that the government was not to force anybody to believe if they didn't want to. Look it up. Study it.

Somehow that has morphed into a new faction of whiners and complainers hellbent(yeah, that's on purpose) on stifling any and all that believe in anything. A faction looking hard to be offended when they can just as easily live and let live as they were allowed to do. You don't want to live and let live, which has served this country well since it's inception. No, you want to be offended over stuff that never harmed you. You want to shut anybody up that dares have beliefs that you don't understand. How pathetic of you. And how wrong.

You're way off point, the subject was about teaching the bible in a public schools. The constitution says you cant do it and that happens to be the same forefathers that you are claiming founded the country on Christian beliefs. Many of them did not believe in a Christian god so you are very shelter to believe that. If you teach the bible in a public schools then you also must allow the teachings of Satanism and all other religions, you can pray wherever u like but religion must stay out of Government .

Its very clear in the constitution. Laughable argument and surprised at how many are still hanging on. You are attempting to twist the constitution to fit your beliefs ( you're not alone ).

 

[rzrbk7777]

You're way off point, the subject was about teaching the bible in a public schools. The constitution says you cant do it and that happens to be the same forefathers that you are claiming founded the country on Christian beliefs. Many of them did not believe in a Christian god so you are very shelter to believe that. If you teach the bible in a public schools then you also must allow the teachings of Satanism and all other religions, you can pray wherever u like but religion must stay out of Government .

Its very clear in the constitution. Laughable argument and surprised at how many are still hanging on. You are attempting to twist the constitution to fit your beliefs ( you're not alone ).

And of course, you fail to answer even one question asked you. Typical.

So, you aren't one of those freedom from religion zealots, you just use their moniker? Why would you do that if you aren't of their kind?

And since you must fancy yourself as a Constitutional expert, by all means show me where the Constitution says you can't teach from the Bible in schools. I can save you some time b/c our forefathers never meant for education to be a federal thing, but a state thing. Not even their jurisdiction. A big part of the government staying out of the government sponsored religion business was for the purpose of letting states run states. The other part was all about the freedom to express your beliefs as you see fit. Stifling people from openly worshipping as they pleased was the opposite of what the government was doing, but is exactly what the freedom from religion crowd is demanding. If that isn't you, you might want to find a better way of expressing yourself. Please show me where the constitution says we must not offend atheists by practicing our beliefs in public.

But back to the questions, I would truly like to hear from a proud non-believer how the Christians have so offended you, persecuted you, and denied you your right to believe nothing. And how the things I have mentioned in the other post have victimized you in such a way that you feel a need to stop those awful do gooders from messing with your utopia. You gonna answer this time or simply ignore the questions by pretending to be above answering them?

And you are right that some of the forefathers weren't believers. Clearly though, even they didn't seem to try very hard to block the inclusion of God as the basis of our laws. There are lots and lots of strong references to God in the founding of our country. You folks that only see the part you can twist to your agenda seem to be the guys a little over sheltered. If you want to do some digging and come up with all of the anti-God/Christian things written by our forefathers, I will be happy to counter with all of the pro God/Christian references from them and we can see who runs out of things to counter with first.

 

[shnuke]

And how don't you have freedom from religion? Who forces you to go to church? Who forces you to pray? When is the last time you got into trouble for being an atheist? Who denies you anything b/c of your lack of beliefs? Please explain what rights you have been denied b/c you are what you are?

OTOH, how have you ever been harmed by a nativity scene on a courthouse lawn at Christmas? What emotional scars do you have from In God We Trust being on the money you spend? And why? How has the Ten Commandments being displayed in public buildings changed your life for the worst or denied you the right to believe as you choose? What is a coach kneeling at midfield after a ball game and giving quiet thanks to God done that is so deplorable to you?

Please give all of the examples of how you have been persecuted b/c you live among Christians.

Our country was founded under Christian beliefs. Our forefathers came to this country(started this country) so as not to be persecuted and told what their religion had to be. All so they didn't have to hide in silence to excerise their beliefs as they choose. They also made it a very important thing that nobody HAD to believe as they did to live peacefully in this country. That never meant in any way that they were supposed to hide their own beliefs or pretend that we were not founded under the principles and beliefs that they brought with them, only that the government was not to force anybody to believe if they didn't want to. Look it up. Study it.

Somehow that has morphed into a new faction of whiners and complainers hellbent(yeah, that's on purpose) on stifling any and all that believe in anything. A faction looking hard to be offended when they can just as easily live and let live as they were allowed to do. You don't want to live and let live, which has served this country well since it's inception. No, you want to be offended over stuff that never harmed you. You want to shut anybody up that dares have beliefs that you don't understand. How pathetic of you. And how wrong.

This^^

 

[SOPA]

Try google and you can also be as savvy on the constitution as I am, if you are suggesting that the bible be taught in school then you also must be suggesting that Satanism be taught as well. You keep referring to me and how im affected, however, it has nothing to do with me. It has to do with brainwashing children to believe like you and if they don't believe what you believe, your religion threatens them with internal torture. That's called bullying. When we are free of religion then we can start making astonishing advances. Religion holds us back, religion claims to have all the answers, religion has started nearly every war and I can go on and on and on...

Religion doesn't hold me back, it holds you back. I have everything to live for an nothing to die for. Everyone has the right to believe whatever they want but they do not have the right to impose those beliefs on others (which you are disagreeing with). If there was any evidence to believe in god then maybe I would believe in it but I don't believe something because of threats. You don't believe in the flying cookie monster because it wasn't forced upon you but Christianity was and that's why you believe it. If you were born in Pakistan then you would believe in Muhammad.Yes you are brainwashed!!

 

[BOSSHOGFREE]

Try google and you can also be as savvy on the constitution as I am, if you are suggesting that the bible be taught in school then you also must be suggesting that Satanism be taught as well. You keep referring to me and how im affected, however, it has nothing to do with me. It has to do with brainwashing children to believe like you and if they don't believe what you believe, your religion threatens them with internal torture. That's called bullying. When we are free of religion then we can start making astonishing advances. Religion holds us back, religion claims to have all the answers, religion has started nearly every war and I can go on and on and on...

Religion doesn't hold me back, it holds you back. I have everything to live for an nothing to die for. Everyone has the right to believe whatever they want but they do not have the right to impose those beliefs on others (which you are disagreeing with). If there was any evidence to believe in god then maybe I would believe in it but I don't believe something because of threats. You don't believe in the flying cookie monster because it wasn't forced upon you but Christianity was and that's why you believe it. If you were born in Pakistan then you would believe in Muhammad.Yes you are brainwashed!!

View embedded media

We are in fact a Christian nation founded on Christian principles. However true Christian principles teach us that we should not force anyone to be a Christian. Which , not supringly, is the same case as our nation. Our Government does not require, forcibly request, or demand anyone be any specific religion. Just the same as in Christian teaching.

Now, the overwhelming majority of the US population identifies with Christianity. When the public at large elects a representative in part due to their moral code and actions that derived from that code then that representative will typically continue to follow that line of action in their voting record.

We have freedom OF religion not freedom FROM religion. I do not want Muslims to stop practicing their faith publicly. That is their right and liberals across the board will fight for that at all cost while shouting down any acknowledgement of Jesus Christ.

If you want to live in a nation that does not allow it's citizens to regionally determine who and how they worship or how that worship is integrated into their actions in a public manner then I suggest you leave the USA. Because quite simply that is one of the foundational pillars in the birth of this nation.

Isnide the chambers of The House of Representatives directly above the chair of The Speaker of the House (the 3rd most powerful man in our nation and the collective voice of the regionally ellected officials) etched in stone are the words.... In God We Trust. Every morning before the House sessions begin a prayer is offered. We ABSOLUTELY are allowed to have religion in our government buildings. Supported and protected by the consitution ..... BUT.... what we can't do is limit it to one religion and demand everyone follow it as the British did in the 16 and 17 hundreds.

Your feelings do not trump ofhers religious freedoms. Feelings do not supercede freedoms. You have the freedom to choose your own religious path, however, you do not have the right to deny someone elses. A Jewish person may be appalled by an atheist but they do not get to force the atheist to be silent in the public square or in the chambers of our governing bodies. The same goes for the reverse.

You are a minority not an outcast. No rights have been taken from you. No harm done to you because you choose not to worship Christ. You have lost absolutely nothing yet you want to deprive others of their freedoms. You want to harm others by forcing them to publicly put aside their faith. You fail to see that our feelings are worth nothing in comparrison to our freedoms.

 

[rzrbk7777]

tUOTE="SOPA, post: 647783, member: 6514"]Try google and you can also be as savvy on the constitution as I am, if you are suggesting that the bible be taught in school then you also must be suggesting that Satanism be taught as well. You keep referring to me and how im affected, however, it has nothing to do with me. It has to do with brainwashing children to believe like you and if they don't believe what you believe, your religion threatens them with internal torture. That's called bullying. When we are free of religion then we can start making astonishing advances. Religion holds us back, religion claims to have all the answers, religion has started nearly every war.

Religion doesn't hold me back, it holds you back. I have everything to live for an nothing to die for. Everyone has the right to believe whatever they want but they do not have the right to impose those beliefs on others (which you are disagreeing with). If there was any evidence to believe in god then maybe I would believe in it but I don't believe something because of threats. You don't believe in the flying cookie monster because it wasn't forced upon you, Christianity was and that's why you believe it. Yes you are brainwashed!!

[/QUOTE]

Why would I crave to be as saavy as somebody as clueless as you?

Countries that forbid religion have worked so well wherever it has been applied in our history. If only we could live like they have in Russia, Cuba, China, Nazi Germany, etc. instead of this awful Christian nation you seem to deplore. But let's not let real life examples get in the way of your utopic fantasy.

And man, those awful Christians gave us a free country that has rose from nothing to the most prosperous and generous in history. Why wouldn't you want to change that? Those sorry Christians send missionaries(and their families) all over the world into dangerous areas to live in poverty and teach, doctor, feed, clothe, and show kindness and love to some of the most persecuted people on earth. How dare them. You know who fed and clothed the poor in this country before the government got into the handout business? It was the Christian churches. How dare they. And they still do it. Need food and clothing? Start calling local churches and they will have you some help pretty quickly and ask nothing in return. And they won't expect you to be one of them to get that help. What jerks. And that Mother Teresa, what scum, huh? Horrible, horrible folks. How dare us have a moral compass and spiritual beliefs.

The earth is a delicate balance that is somehow set up perfectly to sustain life, but it has never once created life in our history. I heard a man say awhile back that the earth being created by happenstance is about as likely as a tornado ripping through a salvage yard and somehow spitting out a brand new Ferrari ready for the road. In your way of thinking, I guess storm chasers are actually Ferrari hunters.

So, how do you propose we got here? How did the earth bring forth life where life had never been? Never in our scientific history has there ever been a case where life came from anywhere but life. And every kind of life depends on other kinds of life to survive. What are the odds? Virtually infinity to one I would guess.

How has the earth somehow(also by chance in your world) managed to remain stable enough to maintain the delicate balance required to keep that life alive? A little closer to the sun? We are toast. A little farther? We are popcicles. No sustained water, no life. No plants and animals to keep air where we need it, we are all dead. Too much oxygen in the air, fire would destroy everything. Too little, we die. So in your mind, how could all of this possibly happened by chance?

It all had to come from somewhere, and the evidence is overwhelming it could not have happened by sheer accident. And that's where we get to us. We have learned enough throughout time that many of us now think we are so smart that we must be able to comprehend something for it to be true. But in reality, we have no mortal comprehension of how we got here. It is way beyond our ability to understand it all. A lot of things are, and many of them will stay that way. That's just fact.

You know what? If you are right(and no part of me believes you are), I lose nothing by believing that there is life beyond this. I have hope that no matter what happens, there will be something better for me in eternity. If those hopes are false, what have I lost that you had? We both end up exactly the same.

OTOH, if I am right, your eternity is going to be awful. Your risk is great, I lose nothing you don't have if you are right.

One more thing. You blast Christianity. You mock it. You fight it. You want it gone. You somehow believe that the world will be a better place w/o the moral compass of the Christian faith. Show me all of the Godless utopias that this world has produced in it's history. There have been near countless societies where religion has been banned, how many of them were anything but evil disasters?

The real irony here is that you utopia addicts miss a very real fact. If everybody on earth adhered completely to the teachings of Jesus Christ, there would be utopia. No need for cops b/c there would be no crime. No murders, no stealing, no lying, no cheating, no hatred, no greed, no laziness, and no evil. Just utopia. That told me a lot about Christianity, what does it tell you?

The real issue is that you hate the moral compass of Christianity. You don't want to live in a world where you can't party, can't indulge in your lusts, and where you have to recognize that we are not the top of the heap. You are a lost soul.No matter what you accomplish in life, you have nothing to look forward to but a failing body and eventual death. That is very sad. I don't know how you atheists can live like that. Everything you do in life is futile. No matter what the truth is, in the end you lose. No thanks.

 

[SOPA]

We are in fact a Christian nation founded on Christian principles. However true Christian principles teach us that we should not force anyone to be a Christian. Which , not supringly, is the same case as our nation. Our Government does not require, forcibly request, or demand anyone be any specific religion. Just the same as in Christian teaching.

Now, the overwhelming majority of the US population identifies with Christianity. When the public at large elects a representative in part due to their moral code and actions that derived from that code then that representative will typically continue to follow that line of action in their voting record.

We have freedom OF religion not freedom FROM religion. I do not want Muslims to stop practicing their faith publicly. That is their right and liberals across the board will fight for that at all cost while shouting down any acknowledgement of Jesus Christ.

If you want to live in a nation that does not allow it's citizens to regionally determine who and how they worship or how that worship is integrated into their actions in a public manner then I suggest you leave the USA. Because quite simply that is one of the foundational pillars in the birth of this nation.

Isnide the chambers of The House of Representatives directly above the chair of The Speaker of the House (the 3rd most powerful man in our nation and the collective voice of the regionally ellected officials) etched in stone are the words.... In God We Trust. Every morning before the House sessions begin a prayer is offered. We ABSOLUTELY are allowed to have religion in our government buildings. Supported and protected by the consitution ..... BUT.... what we can't do is limit it to one religion and demand everyone follow it as the British did in the 16 and 17 hundreds.

Your feelings do not trump ofhers religious freedoms. Feelings do not supercede freedoms. You have the freedom to choose your own religious path, however, you do not have the right to deny someone elses. A Jewish person may be appalled by an atheist but they do not get to force the atheist to be silent in the public square or in the chambers of our governing bodies. The same goes for the reverse.

You are a minority not an outcast. No rights have been taken from you. No harm done to you because you choose not to worship Christ. You have lost absolutely nothing yet you want to deprive others of their freedoms. You want to harm others by forcing them to publicly put aside their faith. You fail to see that our feelings are worth nothing in comparrison to our freedoms.

"Christian principles teach us that we should not force anyone to be a Christian" For some reason you are claiming that Christianity deserves credit for having principles,. Slavery, abomination for being gay, stoning your daughter to death if she is raped, beating your slave to near death is acceptable as long as you do not kill them, sacrificing a man on a cross to be tortured and beaten. Believe what I believe or else!!!! These principles??? If you want me to continue with more scripture just let me know, I have lots of your bibles principles saved up for you to defend

Point 2: You suggest because overwhelming majority of population identify with Christianity that's suppose to mean something, however, that doesn't hold any weight excluding politicians seeking votes. Ironic that we don't have any atheist in the senate or congress but we do. They are in the closet due to a religion once again forcing their belief code on others. It has less to do with a politicians faith and more to do with votes. Chrisitanity holds the majority of the votes, when a godless earth is proven without a benefit of a doubt, politician can then advance our nation in astonishing ways.

Nobody is suggesting that people of religion cant practice their religion publicly, we are suggesting that no religion be promoted by goverment which seems like we agree on, you say what we cant do is limit it to ONE relgion but Christmas is a federal holiday and that's ONE religion so ill assume that you don't believe Christmas should be celebrated by goverment and if Moses is on the ceiling of the house of representatives then satan and all other religions are also allowed a spot at the courthouses.

Ive also have not suggested that others be harmed for publicly displaying their faith, sometime I think you like to hear yourself cause there is nothing that suggest this. Feelings are not involved, its strictly about goverment/schools/courthouses supporting one religion but not others. Either support all of them or none of them, its really that simple

 

[SOPA]

tUOTE="SOPA, post: 647783, member: 6514"]Try google and you can also be as savvy on the constitution as I am, if you are suggesting that the bible be taught in school then you also must be suggesting that Satanism be taught as well. You keep referring to me and how im affected, however, it has nothing to do with me. It has to do with brainwashing children to believe like you and if they don't believe what you believe, your religion threatens them with internal torture. That's called bullying. When we are free of religion then we can start making astonishing advances. Religion holds us back, religion claims to have all the answers, religion has started nearly every war.

Religion doesn't hold me back, it holds you back. I have everything to live for an nothing to die for. Everyone has the right to believe whatever they want but they do not have the right to impose those beliefs on others (which you are disagreeing with). If there was any evidence to believe in god then maybe I would believe in it but I don't believe something because of threats. You don't believe in the flying cookie monster because it wasn't forced upon you, Christianity was and that's why you believe it. Yes you are brainwashed!!

View embedded media

Why would I crave to be as saavy as somebody as clueless as you?

Countries that forbid religion have worked so well wherever it has been applied in our history. If only we could live like they have in Russia, Cuba, China, Nazi Germany, etc. instead of this awful Christian nation you seem to deplore. But let's not let real life examples get in the way of your utopic fantasy.

And man, those awful Christians gave us a free country that has rose from nothing to the most prosperous and generous in history. Why wouldn't you want to change that? Those sorry Christians send missionaries(and their families) all over the world into dangerous areas to live in poverty and teach, doctor, feed, clothe, and show kindness and love to some of the most persecuted people on earth. How dare them. You know who fed and clothed the poor in this country before the government got into the handout business? It was the Christian churches. How dare they. And they still do it. Need food and clothing? Start calling local churches and they will have you some help pretty quickly and ask nothing in return. And they won't expect you to be one of them to get that help. What jerks. And that Mother Teresa, what scum, huh? Horrible, horrible folks. How dare us have a moral compass and spiritual beliefs.

The earth is a delicate balance that is somehow set up perfectly to sustain life, but it has never once created life in our history. I heard a man say awhile back that the earth being created by happenstance is about as likely as a tornado ripping through a salvage yard and somehow spitting out a brand new Ferrari ready for the road. In your way of thinking, I guess storm chasers are actually Ferrari hunters.

So, how do you propose we got here? How did the earth bring forth life where life had never been? Never in our scientific history has there ever been a case where life came from anywhere but life. And every kind of life depends on other kinds of life to survive. What are the odds? Virtually infinity to one I would guess.

How has the earth somehow(also by chance in your world) managed to remain stable enough to maintain the delicate balance required to keep that life alive? A little closer to the sun? We are toast. A little farther? We are popcicles. No sustained water, no life. No plants and animals to keep air where we need it, we are all dead. Too much oxygen in the air, fire would destroy everything. Too little, we die. So in your mind, how could all of this possibly happened by chance?

It all had to come from somewhere, and the evidence is overwhelming it could not have happened by sheer accident. And that's where we get to us. We have learned enough throughout time that many of us now think we are so smart that we must be able to comprehend something for it to be true. But in reality, we have no mortal comprehension of how we got here. It is way beyond our ability to understand it all. A lot of things are, and many of them will stay that way. That's just fact.

You know what? If you are right(and no part of me believes you are), I lose nothing by believing that there is life beyond this. I have hope that no matter what happens, there will be something better for me in eternity. If those hopes are false, what have I lost that you had? We both end up exactly the same.

OTOH, if I am right, your eternity is going to be awful. Your risk is great, I lose nothing you don't have if you are right.

One more thing. You blast Christianity. You mock it. You fight it. You want it gone. You somehow believe that the world will be a better place w/o the moral compass of the Christian faith. Show me all of the Godless utopias that this world has produced in it's history. There have been near countless societies where religion has been banned, how many of them were anything but evil disasters?

The real irony here is that you utopia addicts miss a very real fact. If everybody on earth adhered completely to the teachings of Jesus Christ, there would be utopia. No need for cops b/c there would be no crime. No murders, no stealing, no lying, no cheating, no hatred, no greed, no laziness, and no evil. Just utopia. That told me a lot about Christianity, what does it tell you?

The real issue is that you hate the moral compass of Christianity. You don't want to live in a world where you can't party, can't indulge in your lusts, and where you have to recognize that we are not the top of the heap. You are a lost soul.No matter what you accomplish in life, you have nothing to look forward to but a failing body and eventual death. That is very sad. I don't know how you atheists can live like that. Everything you do in life is futile. No matter what the truth is, in the end you lose. No thanks.[/QUOTE]

 

[SOPA]

@rzrbk7777

There is OVERWHELMING EVIDENCE on were we came from and how this planet came to be. You just havnt researched it yet due to fear of what you might learn. We are establishing more and more evidence every year, the only thing that we have not discovered is our origin but that doesnt mean a god did it, Once again, the evidence of evolution and the big bang is overwhelming to say the least. Christians best argument is faith, Atheist best argument happens to be evidence. You give all the credit to the "moral compass of Christianity" lolololol. There was a moral compass way before the 10 commandments of Moses so save the speech about chrisitanity providing a moral compass lol. There were 2800 gods before and after your god but you are to self obsorbed to suggest any of those are right and your god is not

The story in the bible was fabricated from 2 gods before the jesus joker, same story with a different god in place. The bible is a stolen myth, do your research because its clear that you have no idea why you believe in the god you believe in.

You believe in an invisible man in the sky and I believe in natural selection. If I don't believe in your idea then I burn in hell for eternity. Its the believe me or else approach...., if you believe in my idea, you simply become worm dirt. Sorry to break it to you but people are not the center of everything created as you have been told. Don't be scared of the truth, its there for you to find

 

[rzrbk7777]

@rzrbk7777

There is OVERWHELMING EVIDENCE on were we came from and how this planet came to be. You just havnt researched it yet due to fear of what you might learn. We are establishing more and more evidence every year, the only thing that we have not discovered is our origin but that doesnt mean a god did it, Once again, the evidence of evolution and the big bang is overwhelming to say the least. Christians best argument is faith, Atheist best argument happens to be evidence. You give all the credit to the "moral compass of Christianity" lolololol. There was a moral compass way before the 10 commandments of Moses so save the speech about chrisitanity providing a moral compass lol. There were 2800 gods before and after your god but you are to self obsorbed to suggest any of those are right and your god is not

The story in the bible was fabricated from 2 gods before the jesus joker, same story with a different god in place. The bible is a stolen myth, do your research because its clear that you have no idea why you believe in the god you believe in.

You believe in an invisible man in the sky and I believe in natural selection. If I don't believe in your idea then I burn in hell for eternity, if you believe in my idea, you simply become worm dirt. Sorry to break it to you but people are not the center of everything created.

Go ahead on and supply some of that overwhelming proof. Not theory from a like minded group of scientists that depend on grant money to come up with theory's that are so out there, nobody can refute them, proof. It aint there. Have those guys turn a rock into a living being. If an unfeeling, unthinking earth did it, it has to be easy for scientists to do it with all of our advancements. But they can't. And they never will. Life comes from life. But how is that possible? If life has to come from life, where did it begin? You and your friends have no answer for that and you never will. You can't even turn a rock into a single celled living organism. And you never will.

Natural selection? What is that? What does it explain? What has it revealed that has cleared anything up?

I'm going to guess that your knowledge of the Bible comes not from learning it but from listening to people like yourself who don't require study and proof, you just accept anything said that fits your agenda as the truth. For you to try to educate me about my religion is akin to a four year old trying to teach advanced math. You know nothing and you have no desire to learn. Your knowledge of God, of Jesus, and of faith is non-existent. Read and study the Bible and you will find it talks a lot about you. Talks a lot about false religions too. But of course, you won't. You choose to lean on your own understanding. The Bible addresses that too.

Instead, you choose to insult me, talk down to me, insult my faith, and try to have me banned from what you see as your world. And you think if somehow, everybody saw things as you do, life would be good. Of course, you have no examples of anywhere in history where faithless societies have prospered in utopic bliss. And many before you have tried. Of course, when given examples of failed attempts, you just skip right over them. Can't let the truth cloud your agenda.

As a Christian I am supposed to love you and I struggle with it, but a lot of Christians would do just that. If you were hungry, they would feed you too. If they are misguided, they are misguided in a good way, the best of ways actually. They strive to love, to help, to be kind and just, and to live their lives as Jesus taught. If my daughter breaks down in the middle of nowhere, I hope and pray it is Christians that come along b/c she will be safe. They are kind and nurturing by faith. I surely can't say the same for atheists.

I have given you lots of examples that there is more out there than simple human comprehension will ever know the answers to, and you respond by telling me I'm wrong and you are right. You tell me the Bible is wrong and you know it, but we both know you really don't. You have yet to explain any of the proof you have of the claims you make. You try to convince me that I am misguided in my faith and then try to tell me what the real history of my religion is as if you could possibly know. Notice that you jump on whatever you were told that discredits God and buy it as the truth w/o regard to source. If you like it, if you already agree with it, you just buy into it. You know so much that isn't true.

One last thing, you clearly despise Christians and you clearly want them gone. Meantime, they have let you live among them your whole life and never tried to get rid of you or force you to believe as they do or else. They have allowed you to peacefully go on with your life. So, who really gets it and who doesn't in this situation? I'm not thinking it's you. May God bless you and your loved ones whether you appreciate it or not.

 

[SOPA]

Go ahead on and supply some of that overwhelming proof. Not theory from a like minded group of scientists that depend on grant money to come up with theory's that are so out there, nobody can refute them, proof. It aint there. Have those guys turn a rock into a living being. If an unfeeling, unthinking earth did it, it has to be easy for scientists to do it with all of our advancements. But they can't. And they never will. Life comes from life. But how is that possible? If life has to come from life, where did it begin? You and your friends have no answer for that and you never will. You can't even turn a rock into a single celled living organism. And you never will.

Natural selection? What is that? What does it explain? What has it revealed that has cleared anything up?

I'm going to guess that your knowledge of the Bible comes not from learning it but from listening to people like yourself who don't require study and proof, you just accept anything said that fits your agenda as the truth. For you to try to educate me about my religion is akin to a four year old trying to teach advanced math. You know nothing and you have no desire to learn. Your knowledge of God, of Jesus, and of faith is non-existent. Read and study the Bible and you will find it talks a lot about you. Talks a lot about false religions too. But of course, you won't. You choose to lean on your own understanding. The Bible addresses that too.

Instead, you choose to insult me, talk down to me, insult my faith, and try to have me banned from what you see as your world. And you think if somehow, everybody saw things as you do, life would be good. Of course, you have no examples of anywhere in history where faithless societies have prospered in utopic bliss. And many before you have tried. Of course, when given examples of failed attempts, you just skip right over them. Can't let the truth cloud your agenda.

As a Christian I am supposed to love you and I struggle with it, but a lot of Christians would do just that. If you were hungry, they would feed you too. If they are misguided, they are misguided in a good way, the best of ways actually. They strive to love, to help, to be kind and just, and to live their lives as Jesus taught. If my daughter breaks down in the middle of nowhere, I hope and pray it is Christians that come along b/c she will be safe. They are kind and nurturing by faith. I surely can't say the same for atheists.

I have given you lots of examples that there is more out there than simple human comprehension will ever know the answers to, and you respond by telling me I'm wrong and you are right. You tell me the Bible is wrong and you know it, but we both know you really don't. You have yet to explain any of the proof you have of the claims you make. You try to convince me that I am misguided in my faith and then try to tell me what the real history of my religion is as if you could possibly know. Notice that you jump on whatever you were told that discredits God and buy it as the truth w/o regard to source. If you like it, if you already agree with it, you just buy into it. You know so much that isn't true.

One last thing, you clearly despise Christians and you clearly want them gone. Meantime, they have let you live among them your whole life and never tried to get rid of you or force you to believe as they do or else. They have allowed you to peacefully go on with your life. So, who really gets it and who doesn't in this situation? I'm not thinking it's you. May God bless you and your loved ones whether you appreciate it or not.

There are countless places you can look to find pure evidence of natural selection.

You ramble so much that I don't even know where to start, ill try to start with you referencing that I insulted you or your kind, this is not the case, I insult your idea's. All ideas should be questioned to the fullest and yes this includes the radical claims of those who suggest an invisible man in the sky. Religion is not immune to criticism contrary to what you have been told. All claims and ideas should be interrogated to the fullest, that's how we grow and come to conclusions on truth. Your god and Christian ideas don't get a free pass and if you are insulted when someone suggest that your idea of an invisible man is crazy and far fetched, I might suggest you provide evidence that your ideas are not. This isn't an attack on individuals but ideas of individuals.

Secondly, you keep giving credit to "Christians" on loving, helping and providing. That's called being a decent human being, a god or religion is not needed for these gestures. It may happen that they are a Christian who happen to do good things but a Buddhist, atheist, Muslim all do those things as well. Try given the human race more credit, people also murder, rape and kill who are Christians, atheist and muslims

And your last statement about me not liking Christians, this goes back to my first point, I have nothing against Christians, I have something against their ideas. Anyone who thinks another should burn in hell for eternity for not believing what they believe is not looking out for that persons interest, So save the BS that Christians love you blah blah blah when that's not at all what their core ideas are about. They are about bullying you to believe what they believe or else. If you want me to pull scripture from your book I will

Lastly, ive read the bible many many times in my search for the why. Its the single most important topic in the world, after I read the bible I realized I wanted no part of a belief group that practice whats in that book. If that's the word of god then im out, better off worshiping Mickey Mantle cause that god dude is a complete . He kills women, children and everyone on the earth and starts over. I could go on and on. YOU are a better person than the god in that book. Unless you support rape, murdering your daughter if she is rapped, beating your slaves or sending a gay person to burn in hell for eternity. Who in the hell would want to worship a god like this?

The west borough church practices exactly what is in YOUR book, they believe the bible to be literally true. There is no arguing that point unless you don't know what's actually in your bible. Christians clearly don't practice everything in the book or they would follow the west borough paths. Thankfully most Christians have enough sense to disclaim a lot of the garbage in it.

I left you one of thousands of videos you can watch on evolution. If you want the real truth then its out there, when a religion provides evidence to their claims ill be the first to look into it. Just watch the first 4 minutes of the top video and it will show how out of touch religion is with reality

 

[rzrbk7777]

,I'm glad you responded. I was afraid you wouldn't. I have so much I want to say to you and it is hard to condense into a message board post. I will do my best.
Part 1
You clearly see yourself as an enlightened man. A visionary man. A man who sees clearly what literally billions are blind to. A part of a new breed that has figured out what has eluded so many before.

And yet, you completely fail to see one of the most basic of human traits. You think you have not insulted me, you have merely insulted my ideas. First off, my beliefs are not ideas, they are an important part of who I am. How can a man as worldly and sophisticated (as you see yourself) be so blind as to not understand such a basic part of human nature? If you insult a child, are you not insulting his mother? There is no doubt she would think you are. If you walk into a bar full of marines and start insulting marines, do you really believe they won't take it personal even though you aren't aiming it at any individuals? I would enjoy watching you test that theory. If you go into a muslim place and insult mohammed, do you really think the people there aren't going to take it that you are insulting them? I think I would enjoy watching you test that theory too.

If you insult who a person is or what a person loves, you are insulting that person. Most grade school kids grasp that. So much for your superior and enlightened wisdom.

Part II

You claim to have read the Bible many times. As respectfully as I can say it, that is a bold faced lie. Had you read the Bible even once from cover to cover, you would know better than to make such a stupid claim. Anybody that has read the entire Bible will tell you it requires a whole lot of two things, time and dedication. I don't know how you are fixed for time, but your lack of dedication is obvious. It is also glaringly apparent from your takes on Christianity, that your working knowledge of the religion is virtually zilch. Had you read the Bible many times, there is no way you could possibly see things as you do, whether you believed what you read or not. Nobody could read it multiple times and be as ignorant of it's content as you are. I know you will refute this, but we both know you will have to lie again to do it.

Part III

You seem to lump all religions into the same group, which is akin to lumping all cars, all mammals, all fish, all jobs, all anything into the same group. They are all different, yet you think b/c you can't tell the difference, there is none. Another crotch shot to your worldly insight.

Let's just do Christians vs Muslims. Christians send out families of missionaries throughout the world to help the helpless, even at great risk and under horrible living conditions. Muslims send terrorists to kill infidels who won't convert. Surely you would see the difference clearly if you had really studied religions as deeply as you claim on your way to becoming a proud atheist.

Mohammedd murdered, lied, stole, raped, and led his people to do the same in the name of Islam. They still do it today. Women were treated with little regard and non-believers were to be converted or eliminated. They stlll do that too.

Jesus taught to love, even your enemies. He never harmed or called for the harming of anybody. A fact you would know had you read the Bible many times. When the harlot was about to be stoned, Jesus said, "Let he who is without sin cast the first stone". When Jesus was tortured on the cross, He said, "Forgive them Father, they know not what they do".

You think Christians are mean to homosexuals. Well, they think it's a sin and they pray for them. The horror. How do gays get up and face the morning knowing that somewhere some Christians are praying for them. How awful.

Muslim ran countries? Let's just say there aren't any Ellen's and Rosie's on Tehran TV and don't bother looking for any pride parades there either. Do I really need to describe what a gay person can find there? Hint, it aint prayers.

I said in an earlier post that the true utopia that people like you think is attainable only w/o religion, would be easy if the whole world followed the teachings of Jesus. No lying, no stealing, no cheating, no murder, no laziness, no greed, no deceiving, just people doing right all over the world. Another fact you would know had you read the Bible many times.

All religions are not equal. Even a reasonably knowledgable atheist should know that.


Part IV

You repeatedly state that there is overwhelming proof that the world and life was created by, for lack of a better term, accident. Of course, you have zero way of proving any of that. You act as if science is your god and the place of ultimate truth. It's not.

So, science has proven it? The same science that tells us there are X amount of galaxies, X amount of stars, and that they are X amounts of distance away from us, but to this day can't decide how many planets are in our own solar system? The same science that is no closer to creating life from inorganic matter than it has ever been, is supposed to tell us how a random cosmic explosion managed to do it? And you call people of faith blind and ignorant. Look in the mirror.

Part V

You believe that Christianity brainwashes and terrifies children. Yet another proof that you have little to no knowledge of the Bible. I can use myself here as proof of your ignorance.

My dad, while raised as a Christian, never went to church as an adult. He didn't want to give up his drinking and whore chasing. My mom liked to go, but spent most of my childhood working on Sundays. I went to church with my grandma. By 12, I became a real Christian. I was never scared into anything. I was taught to recite Bible verses, taught to sing songs like Jesus Loves Me and This Little Light of Mine, but I was never, ever taught to be afraid. Just the opposite actually. I have been around kids in church for decades, and I have yet to see your claims in action.

When I became a teen I noticed girls, I also noticed that some of my friends thought it was fun and cool to steal cigarettes and beer from our dads and then sneak off and smoke and drink. I discovered that smoking pot was fun and so were girls that weren't quite so Christian like. That shaped my life for the next 25 years. Drugs, sex, and rock and roll was my religion. And you know what, I had clearly never been brainwashed or scared into anything. Nobody came after me as I did as I pleased.

By my late 30's, I had run through one bad marriage and was well on my way to ending the next, when it occurred to me I was going nowhere good and had nothing in my life that meant anything that I wasn't destroying. Just like my dad did. I hadn't hit bottom yet, but I was getting close. And then I remembered the teachings of my childhood. Desperate, I reached out to God. Not out of fear of hell and damnation, but out of realization that the path I was on was one of emptiness and hurt. Realization that all I had ever sought was fun, and that fun was not the same as happiness. I was on the verge of losing my family and all that mattered, so I turned to God. My marriage got fixed and so did my life. I found happiness that had alluded me through all of my years of searching for fun.

Now this is where you are truly confused. You see, those that truly believe in God know that He exists. He is inside of us in the form of His Holy Spirit. You can't know that b/c you don't have it. You declare it as false b/c you are ignorant to it's existence, not b/c you know more but b/c you know less. I have been where you are. I am certain from your takes that you have no idea where I am.

Part VI

From your responses, it is obvious that you think you and your fellow atheists have found something new. A reality that the brainwashed masses just don't see. You see yourselves as visionaries that could fix the world if you just could just stamp out the evils of religion. You seem to have little grasp that earlier versions of you have been around since the beginning of Christianity. Who do you think crucified Christ? Who do you think stoned Christians? Fed them to lions? Who do you think followed Hitler? Stalin? Mao? Castro? It was earlier versions of you. They believed just as sincerely as you that religion was just a tool of the ignorant and the brainwashed. They believed that utopia was just a religion free world away from happening. Just like you, they turned out to be fools.

 

[SOPA]

Response to part 1

I cant completely answer everything due to time , however, I don't claim to know anything as absolute, religion has that covered. Atheist suggest there is no evidence to support the claim. Those who make extraordinary claims must provide extraordinary evidence. The burden falls on those who make the claim, I cannot prove that there is a tree in my front yard at this very moment but I have reasonable cause to believe its still there because I saw it before I walked in my front door. Point is nobody knows what caused life but that doesn't mean a god did it. We have to make assessments based off logic and reason, not off faith or hope. Logic says the earth is 6 billion years old rather than 6 thousand, Logic and science gives us a good understanding of big bang theory but I was not there and cannot prove it , logic says moses didn't build a giant boat and put all animals on the planet. Not even the best architects in the world today are able to build a wooden boat that large with success, therefore, we must use logic and reason to didn't either. Jonas being swallowed by a whale and spit out is an outrageous claim. Point again, we have to use logic and reason.

If I told you the flying cookie monster was real, would you believe it? if not, why? 40% of Americans still believe the earth is 6000 yrs old when science has shown its not. Using the "billions believe it" doesn't make something true. Case in point is that I don't have all the answers but science gives us our best understanding of how things came about.

Response to part 2

I wont argue back and forth about reading the bible, ill just list a couple things in it and you can twist it however you want but its very clear.

Leviticus 18:22, "You shall not lie with a male as one lies with a female; it is an abomination."

• Leviticus 20:13, "If there is a man who lies with a male as those who lie with a woman, both of them have committed a detestable act; they shall surely be put to death. Their bloodguiltness is upon them."

Leviticus 21:9
"'If a priest's daughter defiles herself by becoming a prostitute, she disgraces her father; she must be burned in the fire.

Deuteronomy 22:28-29 “If a man meets a virgin who is not betrothed, and seizes her and lies with her, and they are found, then the man who lay with her shall give to the father of the young woman fifty shekels of silver, and she shall be his wife, because he has violated her. He may not divorce her all his days."

20"If a man strikes his male or female slave with a rod and he dies at his hand, he shall be punished. 21"If, however, he survives a day or two, no vengeance shall be taken; for he is his property. 22"If men struggle with each other and strike a woman with child so that she gives birth prematurely, yet there is no injury, he shall surely be fined as the woman's husband may demand of him, and he shall pay as the judges decide

I copied the above scripture from your bible, there is much more as we both know but ill stop there for now, do you agree with this? Its in your bible and the word of your god. Please explain?


Response to part 3

Actually most religions are very similar. The bible actually copied a lot of its similar myths from Horus, Mithras, Krishna, Dionysus and Other Pagan Gods. These gods were before your god and the bible has the exact storyline in some of its scripture. If you want me to post some of the copyright infringement let me know. There is so much of it that it would swallow this post but if you disagree, I can post scripture that follows the EXACT storyline of your bible


Response to part 4

This goes back to the tree being in my front yard, this goes for everything in the universe. I cant prove that the tree is in my front yard, even if i got up to go look at it because our reality is even in question regarding if we actually exist or if everything is an illusion. I can only use logic and reason to make assessments.
.
Response to 5

Try to give the person more credit and your god less. I don't drink or smoke, i live a very happy life and No god is needed for this. The strength is in you, not in an invisible man that you think is guiding you. You couldn't possibly know this because you have never tried to live godless but you can. See how this works? You can suggest that i don't know and i can suggest you don't know..Its you who had the strength to crawl out of your dark hole. I believed in god when i was a kid, then i did research and found out that it was a crock of shit and this god that you suggest didn't kill and murder as Mohammad did, actually did exactly that. If you need me to quote scripture where god murders, supports slavery and rape i can do so. Your god is no better than Mohammad, they both are egotistical s

When someone is cured of cancer you praise god, when someone dies from cancer you claim its gods will. When it rains during a drought you praise god, when it doesn't rain during a drought its gods will. Its impossible to make an argument when someone thinks like this and you cant grow from within with this kind of thinking


Response to 6

You don't know that you are brainwashed. Case in point again, if you grew up in Pakistan then you would be a Muslim. If you grew up in Tibet you would be buddist. If you lived 9 thousands years ago you would believe in Zeus or the sun god. Point is that you believe what you were taught to believe as a kid, i was taught the same stuff and believed it until i started questioning the bible scripture which in turn, lead me to start researching. My research lead me to think as i do now



In Closing, The bible can be a very valuable source for some and can be uplifting, people can lean on it and it can provide security for them. I don't think the bible is a bad book to follow (most of it). It has many spiritual uplifting words in it that assist in guiding individuals. I personally don't need a god to find strength from within but wouldn't judge those who do, however, it doesn't make it literally true. It is however, an amazing piece of literature which can help people and that should be good enough

I do have a problem with anyone who believes i will and should burn in hell for eternity for not believing what they believe. I have a problem with Christians teaching children the bible as factual while shielding children from exploring alternatives. I have a problem with Christians who judge others for not living by the bible or believing in it. I have a problem with religion and the bloodshed it has caused. I have a problem with religion speaking in absolutes without any evidence to support it. I have a problem with Christians thinking they have a sense of entitlement due to the country being a Christian nation. I have a problem with Christian believing their religion is above the constitution of the united states and they should be allowed to teach their religion in schools, have Christmas as a federal holiday etc etc... I don't care what someone believes but someone shouldn't have a problem with me suggesting its a fable due such an Ext ordinary claim with no evidence to back it. If someone can make this claim i can make the same claim with the flying cookie monster without it insulting their intelligence. I have the same amount of evidence for the flying cookie monster that you do for your invisible man in the sky. Christians believe their god is the right god and the 2800 other gods are all wrong

Christians suggest its outrageous to suggest evolved from monkeys over billions of year but completely rational thinking to believe a magic super designer created everything , Christians always ask how we came from nothing, i ask how did super natural god come from nothing? Once again, it comes down to an individual making reasonable and logical assessments based of what we do know

 

[rzrbk7777]

Response to part 1

I cant completely answer everything due to time , however, I don't claim to know anything as absolute, religion has that covered. Atheist suggest there is no evidence to support the claim. Those who make extraordinary claims must provide extraordinary evidence. The burden falls on those who make the claim, I cannot prove that there is a tree in my front yard at this very moment but I have reasonable cause to believe its still there because I saw it before I walked in my front door. Point is nobody knows what caused life but that doesn't mean a god did it. We have to make assessments based off logic and reason, not off faith or hope. Logic says the earth is 6 billion years old rather than 6 thousand, Logic and science gives us a good understanding of big bang theory but I was not there and cannot prove it , logic says moses didn't build a giant boat and put all animals on the planet. Not even the best architects in the world today are able to build a wooden boat that large with success, therefore, we must use logic and reason to didn't either. Jonas being swallowed by a whale and spit out is an outrageous claim. Point again, we have to use logic and reason.

If I told you the flying cookie monster was real, would you believe it? if not, why? 40% of Americans still believe the earth is 6000 yrs old when science has shown its not. Using the "billions believe it" doesn't make something true. Case in point is that I don't have all the answers but science gives us our best understanding of how things came about.

Response to part 2

I wont argue back and forth about reading the bible, ill just list a couple things in it and you can twist it however you want but its very clear.

Leviticus 18:22, "You shall not lie with a male as one lies with a female; it is an abomination."

• Leviticus 20:13, "If there is a man who lies with a male as those who lie with a woman, both of them have committed a detestable act; they shall surely be put to death. Their bloodguiltness is upon them."

Leviticus 21:9
"'If a priest's daughter defiles herself by becoming a prostitute, she disgraces her father; she must be burned in the fire.

Deuteronomy 22:28-29 “If a man meets a virgin who is not betrothed, and seizes her and lies with her, and they are found, then the man who lay with her shall give to the father of the young woman fifty shekels of silver, and she shall be his wife, because he has violated her. He may not divorce her all his days."

20"If a man strikes his male or female slave with a rod and he dies at his hand, he shall be punished. 21"If, however, he survives a day or two, no vengeance shall be taken; for he is his property. 22"If men struggle with each other and strike a woman with child so that she gives birth prematurely, yet there is no injury, he shall surely be fined as the woman's husband may demand of him, and he shall pay as the judges decide

I copied the above scripture from your bible, there is much more as we both know but ill stop there for now, do you agree with this? Its in your bible and the word of your god. Please explain?


Response to part 3

Actually most religions are very similar. The bible actually copied a lot of its similar myths from Horus, Mithras, Krishna, Dionysus and Other Pagan Gods. These gods were before your god and the bible has the exact storyline in some of its scripture. If you want me to post some of the copyright infringement let me know. There is so much of it that it would swallow this post but if you disagree, I can post scripture that follows the EXACT storyline of your bible


Response to part 4

This goes back to the tree being in my front yard, this goes for everything in the universe. I cant prove that the tree is in my front yard, even if i got up to go look at it because our reality is even in question regarding if we actually exist or if everything is an illusion. I can only use logic and reason to make assessments.
.
Response to 5

Try to give the person more credit and your god less. I don't drink or smoke, i live a very happy life and No god is needed for this. The strength is in you, not in an invisible man that you think is guiding you. You couldn't possibly know this because you have never tried to live godless but you can. See how this works? You can suggest that i don't know and i can suggest you don't know..Its you who had the strength to crawl out of your dark hole. I believed in god when i was a kid, then i did research and found out that it was a crock of shit and this god that you suggest didn't kill and murder as Mohammad did, actually did exactly that. If you need me to quote scripture where god murders, supports slavery and rape i can do so. Your god is no better than Mohammad, they both are egotistical s

When someone is cured of cancer you praise god, when someone dies from cancer you claim its gods will. When it rains during a drought you praise god, when it doesn't rain during a drought its gods will. Its impossible to make an argument when someone thinks like this and you cant grow from within with this kind of thinking


Response to 6

You don't know that you are brainwashed. Case in point again, if you grew up in Pakistan then you would be a Muslim. If you grew up in Tibet you would be buddist. If you lived 9 thousands years ago you would believe in Zeus or the sun god. Point is that you believe what you were taught to believe as a kid, i was taught the same stuff and believed it until i started questioning the bible scripture which in turn, lead me to start researching. My research lead me to think as i do now



In Closing, The bible can be a very valuable source for some and can be uplifting, people can lean on it and it can provide security for them. I don't think the bible is a bad book to follow (most of it). It has many spiritual uplifting words in it that assist in guiding individuals. I personally don't need it to find strength from within but wouldn't judge those who do, however, it doesn't make it literally true. It is however, an amazing piece of literature which can help people and that should be good enough

I do have a problem with anyone who believes i will and should burn in hell for eternity for not believing what they believe. I have a problem with Christians teaching children the bible as factual while shielding children from exploring alternatives. I have a problem with Christians who judge others for not living by the bible or believing in it. I have a problem with religion and the bloodshed it has caused. I have a problem with religion speaking in absolutes without any evidence to support it. I don't care what someone believes but someone shouldn't have a problem with me suggesting its a fable due such an Ext ordinary claim with no evidence to back it. If someone can make this claim i can make the same claim with the flying cookie monster without it insulting their intelligence. I have the same amount of evidence for the flying cookie monster that you do for your invisible man in the sky

Christians suggest its outrageous to suggest evolved from monkeys over billions of year but completely rational thinking to believe a magic super designer created everything , Christians always ask how we came from nothing, i ask how did super natural god come from nothing? Once again, it comes down to an individual making reasonable and logical assessments based of what we do know

You lost me when you declared Moses didn't build a giant boat. You really do know your Bible don't you? Wow. How many times did you say you read that thing?

You obviously think that if you say it with enough condescension and in an authorative enough manner, you can be as vague as you are and still win your point. Whatever works in your circles I guess.

Are you even aware that the scriptures you found are in the Old Testament? Are you aware that the teachings of Jesus are the New Testament? Are you aware that Jesus taught nothing but peace, love, and forgiveness? Are you aware that the teachings of Christ are what makes Christians, well, Christians?

All you've really proven is that you can do a google search and find somebody that will sell whatever you want to buy if you look for it. And if it's on the internet, it's always true, right? Like I have already said(and it is the truth), I have been where you are. I spent decades in it and around it. I spent decades thinking Sunday's were made for sleeping in and getting over Saturday night. OTOH, you have no clue where I am. You have told me that over and over, and I believe you.

 

[SOPA]

Im pretty sure you know I meant Noah but whatever the case but once again, you have no defense but claim turn the other way and pick out only certain parts that you want to be true
Its interesting how I quoted things out of the bible and your deflecting it by using the old testament as not valid. So im guessing we are throwing out the old testament as the word of god? Ok let them show some scripture from the new testament. Guess we probably need to throw this out as well, would it make a difference if I typed it all out for you rather than copy and paste lol. Looks like your argument has become null.

New testament scripture that I copied and pasted ( sorry but not enough time on my hands to type it all out of the bible for you) Once again, Now your argument has turned to whether or not I have read the bible


are you still suggesting your god teaches love and Mohammad teaches something else? You are a typical Christian that deflects a good deal of the bible and picks/chooses parts of it

Cruelty in the New Testament

And the LORD said unto Moses, Take all the heads of the people, and hang them up before the LORD against the sun, that the fierce anger of the LORD may be turned away from Israel.--Num.25:4
He's causing the plagues so that we can tell stories about the plagues. He's torturing the Egyptians so that we will worship Him. What kind of insecure and cruel God murders -- murders first-born children -- so that His followers will obey Him, and will tell stories about Him? -- Slate Blogs the Bible

1. 
   Matthew
   • Those who bear bad fruit will be cut down and burned "with unquenchable fire." 3:10, 12
     
   • Jesus strongly approves of the law and the prophets. He hasn't the slightest objection to the cruelties of the Old Testament. 5:17
     
   • Jesus recommends that to avoid sin we cut off our hands and pluck out our eyes. This advice is given immediately after he says that anyone who looks with lust at any women commits adultery. 5:29-30
     
   • Jesus says that most people will go to hell. 7:13-14
     
   • Those who fail to bear "good fruit" will be "hewn down, and cast into the fire." 7:19
     
   • "The children of the kingdom [the Jews] shall be cast out into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth." 8:12
     
   • Jesus tells a man who had just lost his father: "Let the dead bury the dead." 8:21
     
   • Jesus sends some devils into a herd of pigs, causing them to run off a cliff and drown in the waters below. 8:32
     
   • Cities that neither "receive" the disciples nor "hear" their words will be destroyed by God. It will be worse for them than for Sodom and Gomorrah. And you know what God supposedly did to those poor folks (see Gen 19:24). 10:14-15
     
   • Families will be torn apart because of Jesus (this is one of the few "prophecies" in the Bible that has actually come true). "Brother shall deliver up the brother to death, and the father the child: and the children shall rise up against their parents, and cause them to be put to death." 10:21
     
   • Jesus says that we should fear God who is willing and "able to destroy both soul and body in hell." 10:28
     
   • Jesus says that he has come to destroy families by making family members hate each other. He has "come not to send peace, but a sword." 10:34-36
     
   • Jesus condemns entire cities to dreadful deaths and to the eternal torment of hell because they didn't care for his preaching. 11:20-24
     
   • Jesus will send his angels to gather up "all that offend" and they "shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth." 13:41-42, 50
     
   • Jesus is criticized by the Pharisees for not washing his hands before eating. He defends himself by attacking them for not killing disobedient children according to the commandment: "He that curseth father or mother, let him die the death." (See Ex 21:15, Lev 20:9, Dt 21:18-21) So, does Jesus think that children who curse their parents should be killed? It sure sounds like it. 15:4-7
     
   • "Every plant, which my heavenly Father hath not planted, shall be rooted up." 15:13
     
   • Jesus advises his followers to mutilate themselves by cutting off their hands and plucking out their eyes. He says it's better to be "maimed" than to suffer "everlasting fire." 18:8-9
     
   • In the parable of the unforgiving servant, the king threatens to enslave a man and his entire family to pay for a debt. This practice, which was common at the time, seems not to have bothered Jesus very much. The parable ends with this: "So likewise shall my heavenly Father do also unto you." If you are cruel to others, God will be cruel to you. 18:23-35
     
   • "And his lord was wroth, and delivered him to the tormentors." 18:34
     
   • God is like a rich man who owns a vineyard and rents it to poor farmers. When he sends servants to collect the rent, the tenants beat or kill them. So he sent his son to collect the rent, and they kill him too. Then the owner comes and kills the farmers and rents the vineyard to others. 21:33-41
     
   • "Whosoever shall fall on this stone shall be broken: but on whomsoever it shall fall, it will grind him to powder." Whoever falls on "this stone" (Jesus) will be broken, and whomever the stone falls on will be ground into powder. 21:44
   
   
2. Jesus had no problem with the idea of drowning everyone on earth in the flood. It'll be just like that when he returns. 24:37
   
   
   
   
3. The servant who kept and returned his master's talent was cast into the "outer darkness" where there will be "weeping and gnashing of teeth." 25:30
   
   
   
4. Jesus judges the nations. 25:31-46
   
   
   
5. Jesus tells us what he has planned for those that he dislikes. They will be cast into an "everlasting fire." 25:41
   
   
   
6. Jesus says the damned will be tormented forever. 25:46
   Mark
   
   
   
7. Jesus explains why he speaks in parables: to confuse people so they will go to hell. 4:11-12
   
   
   
8. Jesus sends devils into 2000 pigs, causing them to jump off a cliff and be drowned in the sea. When the people hear about it, they beg Jesus to leave. 5:12-13
   
   
   
   
9. Jesus says that those that believe and are baptized will be saved, while those who don't will be damned. 16:16
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   Luke
   

1. 
   

 

[SOPA]

More cruelty scripture from the new testament, guess your sticking with Mohommad teached murder and your god teaches love????
Mark

1. Jesus explains why he speaks in parables: to confuse people so they will go to hell. 4:11-12
   
   
   
2. Jesus sends devils into 2000 pigs, causing them to jump off a cliff and be drowned in the sea. When the people hear about it, they beg Jesus to leave. 5:12-13
   
   
   
3. Any city that doesn't "receive" the followers of Jesus will be destroyed in a manner even more savage than that of Sodom and Gomorrah. 6:11
   
   
   
4. Jesus criticizes the Jews for not killing their disobedient children as required by Old Testament law. (See Ex 21:15, Lev 20:9, Dt 21:18-21) 7:9-10
   
   
   
5. Jesus tells us to cut off our hands and feet, and pluck out our eyes to avoid going to hell. 9:43-49
   
   
   
6. God is like a rich man who owns a vineyard and rents it to poor farmers. When he sends servants to collect the rent, the tenants beat or kill them. So he sent his son to collect the rent, and they kill him too. Then the owner comes and kills the farmers and gives the vineyard to others. 12:1-9
   
   
   
7. Jesus tells his disciples to eat his body and drink his blood. 14:22-24
   
   
   
8. Jesus says that those that believe and are baptized will be saved, while those who don't will be damned. 16:16
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   Luke
   
   
   
9. Zechariah asks the angel Gabriel how his wife Elizabeth could become pregnant, since she is "stricken with years." Gabriel makes him "dumb" just for asking. 1:20
   
   
   
10. Those who fail to bear "good fruit" will be "hewn down, and cast into the fire." 3:9
    
    
    
11. John the Baptist says that Christ will burn the damned "with fire unquenchable." 3:17
    
    
    
12. Jesus heals a naked man who was possessed by many devils by sending the devils into a herd of pigs, causing them to run off a cliff and drown in the sea. This messy, cruel, and expensive (for the owners of the pigs) treatment did not favorably impress the local residents, and Jesus was asked to leave. 8:27-37
    
    
    
13. Jesus says that entire cities will be violently destroyed and the inhabitants "thrust down to hell" for not "receiving" his disciples. 10:10-15
    
    
    
14. Jesus says that we should fear God since he has the power to kill us and then torture us forever in hell. 12:5
    
    
    
15. Jesus says that God is like a slave-owner who beats his slaves "with many stripes." 12:46-47
    
    
    
16. "Except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish." 13:3, 5
    
    
    
17. According to Jesus, only a few will be saved; the vast majority will suffer eternally in hell where "there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth." 13:23-30
    
    
    
18. In the parable of the rich man and Lazarus, the rich man goes to hell, because as Abraham explains, he had a good life on earth and so now he will be tormented. Whereas Lazarus, who was miserable on earth, is now in heaven. This seems fair to Jesus. 16:19-31
    
    
    
19. Jesus believed the story of Noah's ark. He thought it really happened and had no problem with the idea of God drowning everything and everybody. 17:26-27
    
    
    
20. Jesus also believes the story about Sodom's destruction. He says, "even thus shall it be in the day the son of man is revealed ... Remember Lot's wife." This tells us about Jesus' knowledge of science and history, and his sense of justice. 17:29-32
    
    
    
21. In the parable of the talents, Jesus says that God takes what is not rightly his, and reaps what he didn't sow. The parable ends with the words: "bring them [those who preferred not to be ruled by him] hither, and slay them before me." 19:22-27
    
    
    
22. Jesus tells his disciples to eat his body and drink his blood. 22:19-20
    John
    
    
    
23. Jesus believed the stupid and vicious story from Numbers 21. (God sent snakes to bite the people for complaining about the lack of food and water. Then God told Moses to make a brass snake to cure them from the bites.) 3:14
    
    
    
24. "God so loved the world, that he gave his His only begotten Son."
    As an example to parents everywhere and to save the world (from himself), God had his own son tortured and killed. 3:16
    
    
    
25. People are damned or saved depending only on what they believe. 3:18, 36
    
    
    
26. The "wrath of God" is on all unbelievers. 3:36
    
    
    
27. Jesus believes people are crippled by God as a punishment for sin. He tells a crippled man, after healing him, to "sin no more, lest a worse thing come unto thee." 5:14
    
    
    
28. Those who do not believe in Jesus will be cast into a fire to be burned. 15:6
    
    
    
29. Jesus says we must eat his flesh and drink his blood if we want to have eternal life. This idea was just too gross for "many of his disciples" and "walked no more with him." (They are called Protestants nowadays.) 6:53-66
    Acts
    
    
    
30. Peter claims that Dt 18:18-19 refers to Jesus, saying that those who refuse to follow him (all non-Christians) must be killed. 3:23
    
    
    
31. Peter and God scare Ananias and his wife to death for not forking over all of the money that they made when selling their land. 5:1-10
    
    
    
32. Peter has a dream in which God show him "wild beasts, and creeping things, and fowls." The voice (God's?) says, "Rise, Peter: kill and eat." 10:10-13
    
    
    
33. Peter describes the vision that he had in the last chapter (10:10-13). All kinds of beasts, creeping things, and fowls drop down from the sky in a big sheet, and a voice (God's, Satan's?) tells him to "Arise, Peter; slay and eat." 11:5-10
    
    
    
34. The "angel of the Lord" killed Herod by having him "eaten of worms" because "he gave not God the glory." 12:23
    
    
    
35. David was "a man after [God's] own heart." 13:22
    
    
    
36. The author of Acts talks about the "sure mercies of David." But David was anything but merciful. For an example of his behavior see 2 Sam 12:31 and 1 Chr 20:3, where he saws, hacks, and burns to death the inhabitants of several cities. 13:34
    
    
    
37. Paul and the Holy Ghost conspire together to make Elymas (the sorcerer) blind

 

[SOPA]

And here is more info from the new testament. There is so much of it but im getting tired of copy and pasting

Homosexuals (those "without natural affection") and their supporters (those "that have pleasure in them") are "worthy of death" - - along with gossips, boasters, and disobedient children. 1:31-32


If you defile the temple of God, God will destroy you

The bloody death of Jesus smelled good to God

God is planning a messy, mass murder in "the wrath to come" and only Jesus can save you from it.

God drowned everyone on earth except for Noah and his family

Jesus says that God is like a slave-owner who beats his slaves "with many stripes

Those who fail to bear "good fruit" will be "hewn down, and cast into the fire."

 

[SOPA]

@rzrbk7777 @BOSSHOGFREE

This should settle it

 

[rzrbk7777]

@rzrbk7777 @BOSSHOGFREE

This should settle it

View embedded media

Didn't waste my time watching it, but I get the gist from the headline. You believe in nothing, and somehow you have turned that into your religion. You think it is deplorable for people of faith to want others to believe what they believe, but at the same time you throw a hissy fit if believing nothing isn't the government religion of choice. Ironic how often the most self important people in the world are also the least self aware.

Haven't forgot your last post. Been busy this week but I will get to it.

 

[SOPA]

Didn't waste my time watching it, but I get the gist from the headline. You believe in nothing, and somehow you have turned that into your religion. You think it is deplorable for people of faith to want others to believe what they believe, but at the same time you throw a hissy fit if believing nothing isn't the government religion of choice. Ironic how often the most self important people in the world are also the least self aware.

Haven't forgot your last post. Been busy this week but I will get to it.

Ironically, you would also have to believe life came from nothing if we are going to approach it from that line of thinking . A super all knowing magical invisible man in the sky doesn't get a free pass for existing from nothing. We are learning more and more about how life came about through science, what we do know is how human evolved and that is very clear

We do not know the origins of life at this time but that doesn't mean an invisible man in the sky did it as you claim. Atheist simply take the stance that we do not know the origins of life, Christians speak in absolutes, not atheist...

 

[rzrbk7777]

Ironically, you would also have to believe life came from nothing if we are going to approach it from that line of thinking . A super all knowing magical invisible man in the sky doesn't get a free pass for existing from nothing. We are learning more and more about how life came about through science, what we do know is how human evolved and that is very clear

We do not know the origins of life at this time but that doesn't mean an invisible man in the sky did it as you claim. Atheist simply take the stance that we do not know the origins of life, Christians speak in absolutes, not atheist...

God is an invisible man in the sky only to those who are too blind to see Him. God's presence is clear to billions past and present. Some of the greatest minds that have ever lived have shared my faith. People far wiser and more accomplished than you or I. Especially you. Most of the most horrible people that ever lived shared your lack of faith, though a few of them falsely claimed to have faith. I am quite comfortable with my side.

The absolute worst thing that could happen is I end up where you do. Hopefully as you age(assuming today or a day soon doesn't take you as we aren't ever assured of another day), and your body starts to betray you and your end gets close, you will grasp that your faith in science did not save you and you will look where the wise before you and around you have always looked. From what I have seen from you so far, I really doubt it.

You know squat about how(or if) we have evolved and you are too much of a combination of ignorance and arrogance to realize it. When is the last time you saw an ape evolve into a man? Or anything evolve into anything else? Why did it stop? There is a reason they can't find bigfoot, and it is not b/c he is too smart to get caught. The Bible was written 2000+ years ago, but speaks plenty of people like you, and where you would lead the world. It is incredible how the prophecies of the Bible have revealed themselves as true and continue to do so. Of course, a man who has read the Bible as many times as you claim would already know that. Go back and look at a 100 year old science book or two and see how much real truth was in them. See how much has been proven totally wrong. Proven, not theoried. There is a reason so many great heroes in our history knew God and so many villians denied Him. You won't find those reasons in outdated science books either.

A wise man told me once that the difference between ignorance and stupidity is simple. Ignorance is just the sum of all we don't know. Ignorance is something we all share, as everybody is ignorant of something. Stupidity is what happens when folks don't grasp what they are ignorant of. Sadly, we have learned just enough to create a lot of stupidity and you are a shining(or dull) example of that. Hope your folks neutered you before you could reproduce.

I'll be getting back with you just as soon as I have absolutely nothing better to do than debate a fool.

 

[SOPA]

God is an invisible man in the sky only to those who are too blind to see Him. God's presence is clear to billions past and present. Some of the greatest minds that have ever lived have shared my faith. People far wiser and more accomplished than you or I. Especially you. Most of the most horrible people that ever lived shared your lack of faith, though a few of them falsely claimed to have faith. I am quite comfortable with my side.

The absolute worst thing that could happen is I end up where you do. Hopefully as you age(assuming today or a day soon doesn't take you as we aren't ever assured of another day), and your body starts to betray you and your end gets close, you will grasp that your faith in science did not save you and you will look where the wise before you and around you have always looked. From what I have seen from you so far, I really doubt it.

You know squat about how(or if) we have evolved and you are too much of a combination of ignorance and arrogance to realize it. When is the last time you saw an ape evolve into a man? Or anything evolve into anything else? Why did it stop? There is a reason they can't find bigfoot, and it is not b/c he is too smart to get caught. The Bible was written 2000+ years ago, but speaks plenty of people like you, and where you would lead the world. It is incredible how the prophecies of the Bible have revealed themselves as true and continue to do so. Of course, a man who has read the Bible as many times as you claim would already know that. Go back and look at a 100 year old science book or two and see how much real truth was in them. See how much has been proven totally wrong. Proven, not theoried. There is a reason so many great heroes in our history knew God and so many villians denied Him. You won't find those reasons in outdated science books either.

A wise man told me once that the difference between ignorance and stupidity is simple. Ignorance is just the sum of all we don't know. Ignorance is something we all share, as everybody is ignorant of something. Stupidity is what happens when folks don't grasp what they are ignorant of. Sadly, we have learned just enough to create a lot of stupidity and you are a shining(or dull) example of that. Hope your folks neutered you before you could reproduce.

I'll be getting back with you just as soon as I have absolutely nothing better to do than debate a fool.

Once again, you bring a argument and suggest that those ( like hitler ) who was catholic wasn't really catholic, he was just pretending. The typical Christian approach. Religion is dying at a rapid rate because we are learning more and more about our existence. Many moons from now religion will be dead to all but the radicals who wont accept the evidence. Its out there now but so many are afraid of it, someday soon the evidence will be so overwhelming that the truth can no longer be denied.

Things that we have learned since your billions of believer believed what they thought to be true. That argument is null due to me being able to provide the same intelligent humans who suggest a god is not needed (Stephan hawking and many many many more)

The earth is not 6000 years old as you bible suggest, rather 4.6 billion, some suggest is over 6 billion. This we know through evidence by looking at the universe expansion

Second, animals are evolving at this very moment, just do a quick search and you will find evidence of this. Its taken billions of years for life to evolve into what you see today, not a small spec of 50 . Fossils have proven this as well, I cant believe im having this conversation with a grown man, Its like talking to a child


I know you havnt seeked out the truth or you would be much more educated. That's one of the problems with religion, its very difficult to know the evidence and facts when you have been brainwashed to believe there is only one way and that's a god. I might suggest that's why Christians are so ignorant, they don't want to listen to facts which in turn, doesn't permit them to think there may have been another way this world came about.

Im not smart enough to know all this on my own, it came from researching the evidence and facts that were provided. Once again, if you're not afraid of the truth then simply do some research. The knowledge is all there for your taking. You don't need to take my word for it

 

[rzrbk7777]

Once again, you bring a argument and suggest that those ( like hitler ) who was catholic wasn't really catholic, he was just pretending. The typical Christian approach. Religion is dying at a rapid rate because we are learning more and more about our existence. Many moons from now religion will be dead to all but the radicals who wont accept the evidence. Its out there now but so many are afraid of it, someday soon the evidence will be so overwhelming that the truth can no longer be denied.

Things that we have learned since your billions of believer believed what they thought to be true. That argument is null due to me being able to provide the same intelligent humans who suggest a god is not needed (Stephan hawking and many many many more)

The earth is not 6000 years old as you bible suggest, rather 4.6 billion, some suggest is over 6 billion. This we know through evidence by looking at the universe expansion

Second, animals are evolving at this very moment, just do a quick search and you will find evidence of this. Its taken billions of years for life to evolve into what you see today, not a small spec of 50 . Fossils have proven this as well, I cant believe im having this conversation with a grown man, Its like talking to a child


I know you havnt seeked out the truth or you would be much more educated. That's one of the problems with religion, its very difficult to know the evidence and facts when you have been brainwashed to believe there is only one way and that's a god. I might suggest that's why Christians are so ignorant, they don't want to listen to facts which in turn, doesn't permit them to think there may have been another way this world came about.

Im not smart enough to know all this on my own, it came from researching the evidence and facts that were provided. Once again, if you're not afraid of the truth then simply do some research. The knowledge is all there for your taking. You don't need to take my word for it

Hitler, just like you, denounced his Christian upbringing and decided that people like you and him didn't need religion. He rode that train straight to the deaths of millions, including himself.

You have said in this thread there is already overwhelming evidence(which of course, you couldn't provide) and now it is someday soon there will be overwhelming evidence. My dad once told me, tell the truth and you won't have to remember what you said to avoid getting caught in a lie. That applies here for sure.

Tell you what, get your science gurus to:

Decide how many planets are in our solar system before they try to count the galaxies and stars, and they may be more credible.

Divert hurricanes before they hit populated shorelines.

Get tornadoes to go back into the clouds before they level neighborhoods.

Produce a nice rainfall to end a severe drought.

Stop a torrential rain before a flood.

Stop a blizzard before it ever happens.

But they can't. Other than seeing them coming ahead of time, we are as helpless as we ever were. All we can do is run for cover and hope to survive, same as the animals. We are just as helpless as we ever were. We aren't nearly as big as you want to believe.

You want to take scientists at their word? The same scientists who now make their livings off of agenda driven politicians? You really think a scientist depending on federal grants is going to stand up and defy Obama's global warming agenda? I mean climate change b/c a series of mild summers and harsh winters forced them to change the name so as not to appear ridiculous. The sciences that don't produce marketable products are now reduced to being political lapdogs in way too many cases, and pretty much find what they are told to find if they want to keep paying their bills. That's how the government works these days. They take our money and pay folks to lie to us in the name of science.

You know why Obama is such a climate change advocate? It aint b/c he loves the planet, it is b/c that is a great excuse to create new regs, enforce new restrictions, and make government bigger and more powerful. Oh, and take away more of our freedoms. And dullards like you act as cheerleaders. Who do you think bought Hitler's crap? It was earlier versions of you.

Every man made disaster in history goes back to one simple cause. Some man(or men) failed to know their limitations. Do some research and you will find an unending supply of people who thought they could handle more than they were capable of. You are obviously a disaster waiting to happen b/c you have no clue just how trivial you are in the grand scheme of things.

Good luck on stamping out religion. Better than you have tried and eventually died. And why do you even care? If people take comfort in faith, gain strength from it, accept the loss of loved ones better b/c of it, who are you to want to take that from them? At best you are a misguided bully, at worst, an evil tyrant. Either way, you have bit off way more than you can hope to swallow in your lifetime, and for you, death is the end so why do you care? And you don't think you have a religion? Your religion is being a hateful jerk who wants to impose his shallow will on everybody else whether they like it or not. Take away the rights of people who have never harmed you just b/c you can't stand the thought of people believing something you don't, or won't. And you really can't see the similarities between you and the Nazi's? Can't remember who it was, but somebody famous once said, "Those who don't learn from history are doomed to repeat it". If that doesn't hit home with you, well, you are doomed.

 

[SOPA]

Hitler, just like you, denounced his Christian upbringing and decided that people like you and him didn't need religion. He rode that train straight to the deaths of millions, including himself.

You have said in this thread there is already overwhelming evidence(which of course, you couldn't provide) and now it is someday soon there will be overwhelming evidence. My dad once told me, tell the truth and you won't have to remember what you said to avoid getting caught in a lie. That applies here for sure.

Tell you what, get your science gurus to:

Decide how many planets are in our solar system before they try to count the galaxies and stars, and they may be more credible.

Divert hurricanes before they hit populated shorelines.

Get tornadoes to go back into the clouds before they level neighborhoods.

Produce a nice rainfall to end a severe drought.

Stop a torrential rain before a flood.

Stop a blizzard before it ever happens.

But they can't. Other than seeing them coming ahead of time, we are as helpless as we ever were. All we can do is run for cover and hope to survive, same as the animals. We are just as helpless as we ever were. We aren't nearly as big as you want to believe.

You want to take scientists at their word? The same scientists who now make their livings off of agenda driven politicians? You really think a scientist depending on federal grants is going to stand up and defy Obama's global warming agenda? I mean climate change b/c a series of mild summers and harsh winters forced them to change the name so as not to appear ridiculous. The sciences that don't produce marketable products are now reduced to being political lapdogs in way too many cases, and pretty much find what they are told to find if they want to keep paying their bills. That's how the government works these days. They take our money and pay folks to lie to us in the name of science.

You know why Obama is such a climate change advocate? It aint b/c he loves the planet, it is b/c that is a great excuse to create new regs, enforce new restrictions, and make government bigger and more powerful. Oh, and take away more of our freedoms. And dullards like you act as cheerleaders. Who do you think bought Hitler's crap? It was earlier versions of you.

Every man made disaster in history goes back to one simple cause. Some man(or men) failed to know their limitations. Do some research and you will find an unending supply of people who thought they could handle more than they were capable of. You are obviously a disaster waiting to happen b/c you have no clue just how trivial you are in the grand scheme of things.

Good luck on stamping out religion. Better than you have tried and eventually died. And why do you even care? If people take comfort in faith, gain strength from it, accept the loss of loved ones better b/c of it, who are you to want to take that from them? At best you are a misguided bully, at worst, an evil tyrant. Either way, you have bit off way more than you can hope to swallow in your lifetime, and for you, death is the end so why do you care? And you don't think you have a religion? Your religion is being a hateful jerk who wants to impose his shallow will on everybody else whether they like it or not. Take away the rights of people who have never harmed you just b/c you can't stand the thought of people believing something you don't, or won't. And you really can't see the similarities between you and the Nazi's? Can't remember who it was, but somebody famous once said, "Those who don't learn from history are doomed to repeat it". If that doesn't hit home with you, well, you are doomed.

1. Try to keep up, I said there was ample amount of evidence for evolution, I then said that we don't know the origin of life and this includes you and the cult you follow. Origin of life and evolution are 2 different topics. I supplied you with videos that have loads of EVIDENCE. All you have is what a preacher has told you to believe with 0% evidence, absolutely none,
you base everything off faith and hope. Your prayers get answered 50% of the time and 50% of the time they don't. That's because nobody is answering them, if praying worked then people wouldn't die from cancer, innocent people who believe in the invisible man wouldn't suffer while people who don't believe live a prosperous life and so on....

2. You are so contradicting, you suggest im the bully. Your religion tells children and anyone who will listen they we will be thrown into a lake of fire and burn for eternity if they don't believe in their line of thinking. Your bullying comment is laughable. Religion tries to bully with fear of what will happen if you don't believe what it tells you to believe

3. Once again, you cant argue with someone who takes both sides. I can give you a list of hundreds of evil humans who believed in the invisible man in the sky but you will suggest they didn't "really believe., moreover, they killed and sacrificed other human beings on behalf of the god you say they pretended to believe in

4. You're another Christian who believes that everyone who questions the existence of an invisible man is bad and everyone who believes is good. That's just being a bigot. There are good and bad people on both sides so whatever...If believing mattered then Christians wouldn't have bad things happen to them and atheist wouldn't have good things.

5. I don't care what people believe but religion is dangerous when its followed word for word because of what's in it. It also doesn't allow the human race to advance at rapid rates due to believers thinking they already have the answers to everything. I do have a problem with people believing I should be tossed in a lake of fire for not believing what they believe.

5. You have confirmed your ignorance, someday you will not be able to deny the facts...or maybe you will just avoid the evidence as you have clearly decided to do in this chat

 

[rzrbk7777]

1. Try to keep up, I said there was ample amount of evidence for evolution, I then said that we don't know the origin of life and this includes you and the cult you follow. Origin of life and evolution are 2 different topics. I supplied you with videos that have loads of EVIDENCE. All you have is what a preacher has told you to believe with 0% evidence, absolutely none,
you base everything off faith and hope. Your prayers get answered 50% of the time and 50% of the time they don't. That's because nobody is answering them, if praying worked then people wouldn't die from cancer, innocent people who believe in the invisible man wouldn't suffer while people who don't believe live a prosperous life and so on....

2. You are so contradicting, you suggest im the bully. Your religion tells children and anyone who will listen they we will be thrown into a lake of fire and burn for eternity if they don't believe in their line of thinking. Your bullying comment is laughable. Religion tries to bully with fear of what will happen if you don't believe what it tells you to believe

3. Once again, you cant argue with someone who takes both sides. I can give you a list of hundreds of evil humans who believed in the invisible man in the sky but you will suggest they didn't "really believe., moreover, they killed and sacrificed other human beings on behalf of the god you say they pretended to believe in

4. You're another Christian who believes that everyone who questions the existence of an invisible man is bad and everyone who believes is good. That's just being a bigot. There are good and bad people on both sides so whatever...If believing mattered then Christians wouldn't have bad things happen to them and atheist wouldn't have good things.

5. I don't care what people believe but religion is dangerous when its followed word for word because of what's in it. It also doesn't allow the human race to advance at rapid rates due to believers thinking they already have the answers to everything. I do have a problem with people believing I should be tossed in a lake of fire for not believing what they believe.

5. You have confirmed your ignorance, someday you will not be able to deny the facts...or maybe you will just avoid the evidence as you have clearly decided to do in this chat

1. You didn't say ample, you said overwhelming. You supplied me with squat. I can supply you with lots of video proof that the Starship Enterprise travels through the galaxy at warp speed. You obviously eat junk science for breakfast, lunch, and dinner.

You have zero clue about prayers. None. I've said it before but it's worth saying again, you no nothing about Christianity. You just don't. You are making a fool out of yourself every time you describe what Christians are and what they do. You aren't describing what Christians are at all, you are describing how ignorant you are on the subject. You just can't help but keep hammering home the fact that you lied as hard as you could about reading the Bible many times. You don't have any idea what is in the Bible. And you obviously don't mind being a liar for your cause. You really think you can run over to HateChristians .com or whatever sight you use to find your carefully selected, easy to take out of context Bible verses and then be able to sell your agenda like you know what you are talking about? You look like an idiot. And a fraud.

2. Again, you show your total lack of Bible knowledge. My religion teaches that there is heaven and there is hell. It teaches that there is good and there is evil. It teaches that evil lives among us. It teaches that everybody may choose their path, but that paths have consequences. It teaches that your soul lives after your body dies. It teaches that the choices you make in life determine the fate of your soul. It teaches that there is something better waiting for you if you lead a virtuous life and believe in God , you will have an eternity of happiness, with no evil, no hurt, and no death. Wooooo, how horrible. People shouldn't have anything to look forward to than death, right? It teaches that heaven is a wonderful place and hell is hell. Somehow, some way, all you think it says is do what we say or get thrown in a lake of fire. That's dumber than your Moses and the ark stuff.

And nobody sends you anywhere, you go where you choose. You will find that out some day. Just remember, it was always your choice and nobody ever made you do anything.

You seem to want to teach that no matter what you accomplish in life, it is futile. You are going to die and nothing you did good or bad amounted to squat. Lose a friend or close relative? No comfort and no hope. They are nothing but yet to be devoured worm poop. Oh, and we are all headed there too. That's what you want kids to think. You claim to be so concerned about Christians traumatizing kids yet there you are, telling them that they will all end up as feces for fish bait. Yeah, that's way cooler. You don't even realize how dim your light is, do you?

And you do want to be a bully. You want to force everybody to conform to what you think and take away the option of anything else. That is pretty much the definition of bully.

3. You don't seem to understand that when Christians follow the teachings of Christ, they don't do evil things. If you claim to be a Christian b/c you grew up around them, but you choose evil things as your way of life, odds are really good you never were one. Your take on Hitler backs that up perfectly. If you are a Christian, you tend to act like one. Hitler was no more a Christian than you are. He believed in a master race that could finally reach it's potential if they could just rid the world of Jews. Replace Jews with Christians, and that is almost exactly the way you profess to see things. Kind of sobering huh? Well, probably not to you, but it should be. Remember, the Nazis didn't start out as mass murderers on an industrial level, they started out just wanting freedom from religion.

4. No, I'm a Christian that believes in good and evil. It is not hard to look at people like Hitler, Pol Pot, Mao, Stalin, Jeffrey Dahmer, Ted Bundy, Manson, Islamic terrorists, child molesters, etc., and grasp that evil dwells among us. If you don't see that you are the dumbest guy in the world. Some people just don't feel. No love, no remorse, no guilt, no compassion, no conscience, just a great feeling of power by inflicting their cruel will on innocent people. Those aren't good people who did some bad things, they are/were pure evil to the core.

Christians are taught to show kindness, compassion, generosity, and love. Yes, they falter at times(people like you really test me), they make bad choices, they take bad paths, and they even do bad things. If they are truly Christians though, they struggle badly when they do bad things. I did it for 25 years. Never killed anybody or committed a crime, but I lived on the dark side and I did bad things. My life went badly over and over. Got things straight with God and set out to be a better man, and my life has been much, much better ever since. That is not an accident. Christians tend to thrive and be much happier when they behave as Christians. What sets your moral compass?

Good things happen to bad people and bad things happen to good people. God never intended for us to be robots. Everybody has the choice to be whatever they choose in life(at least afa God is concerned, you don't seem to want it that way). Because of that, we live in a world full of pitfalls. The Bible says(can't remember which verse but with your vast knowledge I know you know it), The rain falls on the just and the unjust. To clarify for you, life is hard. Your faith is not there as a genie in a bottle that rescues you from the perils of the world. What idiot would think that? Oh, sorry. Our faith is there to give us strength through tough times, not to act as a security guard. And it does that well.

5. This may be my favorite of the five(though you had two fives). Religion is dangerous. It must be removed for the human race to advance rapidly. Wow. Right out of playbook of Hitler, Stalin, and every other godless tyrant in history. How could you possibly be that blind to who you are and who you are emulating?

Progress rapidly? Ever study the history of the USA? Founded on Christian values, by mostly Christian believers and basically ran by Christians for over two hundred years. In that time, it went from a handful of rural communities to the richest, most powerful, and most free country in human history. It has also been the most generous and just country in history. We have never even considered taking over the world like your mentors mentioned above. Nobody has ever had to defect from our country either, a common trait among the godless countries you so love. And you call me ignorant. That's OK, you clearly don't know what the word really means or would see it in yourself. Do you even realize you lean Nazi? Neither did they at the time.

 

[SOPA]

1. You didn't say ample, you said overwhelming. You supplied me with squat. I can supply you with lots of video proof that the Starship Enterprise travels through the galaxy at warp speed. You obviously eat junk science for breakfast, lunch, and dinner.

You have zero clue about prayers. None. I've said it before but it's worth saying again, you no nothing about Christianity. You just don't. You are making a fool out of yourself every time you describe what Christians are and what they do. You aren't describing what Christians are at all, you are describing how ignorant you are on the subject. You just can't help but keep hammering home the fact that you lied as hard as you could about reading the Bible many times. You don't have any idea what is in the Bible. And you obviously don't mind being a liar for your cause. You really think you can run over to HateChristians .com or whatever sight you use to find your carefully selected, easy to take out of context Bible verses and then be able to sell your agenda like you know what you are talking about? You look like an idiot. And a fraud.

2. Again, you show your total lack of Bible knowledge. My religion teaches that there is heaven and there is hell. It teaches that there is good and there is evil. It teaches that evil lives among us. It teaches that everybody may choose their path, but that paths have consequences. It teaches that your soul lives after your body dies. It teaches that the choices you make in life determine the fate of your soul. It teaches that there is something better waiting for you if you lead a virtuous life and believe in God , you will have an eternity of happiness, with no evil, no hurt, and no death. Wooooo, how horrible. People shouldn't have anything to look forward to than death, right? It teaches that heaven is a wonderful place and hell is hell. Somehow, some way, all you think it says is do what we say or get thrown in a lake of fire. That's dumber than your Moses and the ark stuff.

And nobody sends you anywhere, you go where you choose. You will find that out some day. Just remember, it was always your choice and nobody ever made you do anything.

You seem to want to teach that no matter what you accomplish in life, it is futile. You are going to die and nothing you did good or bad amounted to squat. Lose a friend or close relative? No comfort and no hope. They are nothing but yet to be devoured worm poop. Oh, and we are all headed there too. That's what you want kids to think. You claim to be so concerned about Christians traumatizing kids yet there you are, telling them that they will all end up as feces for fish bait. Yeah, that's way cooler. You don't even realize how dim your light is, do you?

And you do want to be a bully. You want to force everybody to conform to what you think and take away the option of anything else. That is pretty much the definition of bully.

3. You don't seem to understand that when Christians follow the teachings of Christ, they don't do evil things. If you claim to be a Christian b/c you grew up around them, but you choose evil things as your way of life, odds are really good you never were one. Your take on Hitler backs that up perfectly. If you are a Christian, you tend to act like one. Hitler was no more a Christian than you are. He believed in a master race that could finally reach it's potential if they could just rid the world of Jews. Replace Jews with Christians, and that is almost exactly the way you profess to see things. Kind of sobering huh? Well, probably not to you, but it should be. Remember, the Nazis didn't start out as mass murderers on an industrial level, they started out just wanting freedom from religion.

4. No, I'm a Christian that believes in good and evil. It is not hard to look at people like Hitler, Pol Pot, Mao, Stalin, Jeffrey Dahmer, Ted Bundy, Manson, Islamic terrorists, child molesters, etc., and grasp that evil dwells among us. If you don't see that you are the dumbest guy in the world. Some people just don't feel. No love, no remorse, no guilt, no compassion, no conscience, just a great feeling of power by inflicting their cruel will on innocent people. Those aren't good people who did some bad things, they are/were pure evil to the core.

Christians are taught to show kindness, compassion, generosity, and love. Yes, they falter at times(people like you really test me), they make bad choices, they take bad paths, and they even do bad things. If they are truly Christians though, they struggle badly when they do bad things. I did it for 25 years. Never killed anybody or committed a crime, but I lived on the dark side and I did bad things. My life went badly over and over. Got things straight with God and set out to be a better man, and my life has been much, much better ever since. That is not an accident. Christians tend to thrive and be much happier when they behave as Christians. What sets your moral compass?

Good things happen to bad people and bad things happen to good people. God never intended for us to be robots. Everybody has the choice to be whatever they choose in life(at least afa God is concerned, you don't seem to want it that way). Because of that, we live in a world full of pitfalls. The Bible says(can't remember which verse but with your vast knowledge I know you know it), The rain falls on the just and the unjust. To clarify for you, life is hard. Your faith is not there as a genie in a bottle that rescues you from the perils of the world. What idiot would think that? Oh, sorry. Our faith is there to give us strength through tough times, not to act as a security guard. And it does that well.

5. This may be my favorite of the five(though you had two fives). Religion is dangerous. It must be removed for the human race to advance rapidly. Wow. Right out of playbook of Hitler, Stalin, and every other godless tyrant in history. How could you possibly be that blind to who you are and who you are emulating?

Progress rapidly? Ever study the history of the USA? Founded on Christian values, by mostly Christian believers and basically ran by Christians for over two hundred years. In that time, it went from a handful of rural communities to the richest, most powerful, and most free country in human history. It has also been the most generous and just country in history. We have never even considered taking over the world like your mentors mentioned above. Nobody has ever had to defect from our country either, a common trait among the godless countries you so love. And you call me ignorant. That's OK, you clearly don't know what the word really means or would see it in yourself. Do you even realize you lean Nazi? Neither did they at the time.

Once again you have proven your ignorance, I actually took direct quotes from the bible that ive read many time but that's beside the point, I didn't twist any of the quotes, Christians do that so everything fits. Your only defense to my first set of scripture from the bible was "oh that's from the old testament".. So are we throwing the old testament out completely or just parts of it? I then brought scripture from the new testament but no defense. Its very CLEAR in the bible, I don't need you to tell me whats in it, I already know and posted many evil parts of it for you to bring a defense but you brought nothing, zilch, zero, Natta. You passed up all the scripture I posted and went right to the parts of the scripture you like. As ive suggested, its a great piece of work but you don't get to pick the parts out it that you want to be true and leave other parts out. How about you respond to the scripture I posted? Exactly, you have no defense and I didn't twist any of it. I quoted most of it from your bible which its becoming very clear that you have not read, you are a liar. Im now 100% sure you haven't read the bible

I also brought undeniable evidence of evolution but once again you avoided it and said I didn't have any evidence lol. Its become clear that you are not interested in facts, only interested in believing what you have been brainwashed to believe. You will avoid the evidence at all cost so that it doesn't affect your beliefs, I also used to believe in the same ideas that you believe but then I started looking for the truth, evidence, logic and reason. You should try it

I want there to be an afterlife, I hope im wrong about everything but the evidence doesn't care. I know our fate is unfortunate. Im sure you will be fine though, you went 6 billion years with it being fine so im sure you will manage being worm dirt. Kids should be told the truth, not told something different because it sounds better as you have suggested. Life isn't all sunshine, rainbows and unicorns. Kids shouldn't be taught my point of view or your own. They should be provided with options and not secluded from it (which Christians do). Let them decide as they grow up with all the possibilities on how the universe came about. Your cult brainwashes them to believe one thing and only one thing, im just suggesting that they are given alternatives

 

[RazorbackDundee]

In order to qualify, you must be gay, atheist, muslim, pro abortion, socialist, from a foreign country, or any combination of those. Christians and conservatives are excluded. Odd how exclusive and intolerant the tolerance crowd tends to be.

Hey leave me outta this one lol.

 

[rzrbk7777]

Once again you have proven your ignorance, I actually took direct quotes from the bible that ive read many time but that's beside the point, I didn't twist any of the quotes, Christians do that so everything fits. Your only defense to my first set of scripture from the bible was "oh that's from the old testament".. So are we throwing the old testament out completely or just parts of it? I then brought scripture from the new testament but no defense. Its very CLEAR in the bible, I don't need you to tell me whats in it, I already know and posted many evil parts of it for you to bring a defense but you brought nothing, zilch, zero, Natta. You passed up all the scripture I posted and went right to the parts of the scripture you like. As ive suggested, its a great piece of work but you don't get to pick the parts out it that you want to be true and leave other parts out. How about you respond to the scripture I posted? Exactly, you have no defense and I didn't twist any of it. I quoted most of it from your bible which its becoming very clear that you have not read, you are a liar. Im now 100% sure you haven't read the bible.

I also brought undeniable evidence of evolution but once again you avoided it and said I didn't have any evidence lol. Its become clear that you are not interested in facts, only interested in believing what you have been brainwashed to believe. You will avoid the evidence at all cost so that it doesn't affect your beliefs, I also used to believe in the same ideas that you believe but then I started looking for the truth, evidence, logic and reason. You should try it

I want there to be an afterlife, I hope im wrong about everything but the evidence doesn't care. I know our fate is unfortunate. Im sure you will be fine though, you went 6 billion years with it being fine so im sure you will manage being worm dirt. Kids should be told the truth, not told something different because it sounds better as you have suggested. Life isn't all sunshine, rainbows and unicorns. Kids shouldn't be taught my point of view or your own. They should be provided with options and not secluded from it (which Christians do). Let them decide as they grow up with all the possibilities on how the universe came about. Your cult brainwashes them to believe one thing and only one thing, im just suggesting that they are given alternatives

On the Bible verses, I will explain what you did like this. I will use a real life 20th century person as an example.

If you were alive in the 50's, 60's, or 70's, you watched John Wayne movies. John Wayne was an American icon, a symbol of what America was about. He played heroes in the old west, from sheriffs, to ranchers, to gunfighters, to explorers, to Calvary officers, even western comedies. He played modern day cops, federal agents, and hands on patriarchs of powerful companies. In the military, he played everything from enlisted men to generals, fought in every branch of service, and participated in virtually every major battle in US history. And in almost every role he ever played, he pretty much just played John Wayne. And America loved him for it.

Now, nearly 40 years after his death, when much of the population only knows of him, but little about him, it would be really easy to carefully edit a few clips from his movies, throw a little commentary in for good measure, and lead folks to believe he was the villain in those movies and not the hero.

The Duke steps into a saloon and commences to shooting everybody in it. Look, John Wayne is a rampage killer. A real nutjob. Next scene, the Duke is hiding behind a rock and shooting Indians as they ride by. Look there, the Duke is a racist serial killer, shooting Native Americans for just going for an afternoon ride. The Duke walks up to a smiling gentleman who greets him in a friendly tone, and proceeds to beat the crap out of him. Bully, a mean man who brutalizes nice folks just to be mean. And the scene where he takes his wife(Maureen O'Hara) across his knee and spanks her. Wife beater, abuser, chauvinist, scumbag.

Show that to people that never saw a Duke flick and that's an easy sell. Of course, anybody that had seen all the movies would know it was a load of crap, and that those scenes alone were a total misrepresentation of the story being told. Sure, those scenes were in there, but portraying them as who and what JW was in those movies is misleading at best and really, downright dishonest.

You can do that with scriptures too. But it seems I don't have to tell you that. There are stories around all of those verses that clears up a lot of the mud you tried so hard to stir. Man, you did a two bit hatchet job on Jesus Christ. You are one classy guy. As far as your self proclaimed Bible knowledge, I could pick any ten regular Sunday School attendees at my blue collar little church, and they would smoke you like a rack of ribs on a closed book Bible test. And that includes alot of the kids.You have already proven that here many times. You really need to just let that lie go, you aren't doing anything to hide it.

Undeniable evidence huh? Is that better than the ample and the overwhelming evidence you have already claimed? Just to be fair, I will try to see what you see in a logical manner.

The big bang theory. The theory of evolution. First off, theory does not mean fact as you assume it does, it means at best, educated guess that can't be proven. At worst, in this day of political involvement in the science world, it means whatever keeps those grants coming in. I take all of that into account when I hear the term theory used in a scientific finding. You must not.

The big bang theory. Best I can tell it means our galaxy was formed billions of years ago by a gigantic random cosmic explosion. You will need to confer with your science comrads to get the exact timeline. You know, if they aren't too busy counting planets in our own solar system. Anyway, this cosmic explosion, gazillions of times more powerful than all of the explosive power in our whole world, including nukes, somehow threw out solar systems all over space. Somehow, this huge explosion created balance and order where many of these solar systems have survived for billions of years. Not only that, but some of those planets in those solar systems happened to fall in just the right orbits from their suns to sustain life. And even more amazing, those same planets just happened to have just the right mixture of gases to sustain life. regenerating water too.

Now this is where it gets wild, somehow this explosion created life that somehow survived w/o any means or instincts. It just did. Surely you don't think that random life just automatically knew how to survive from the beginning in what had to be harsh circumstances with no instincts or ability to reason? And an explosion that built things and created life? How soon before our scientists learn to do that? Nothing farfetched about that huh? I look forward to your overwhelming evidence of all of that.

And now to evolution. It stands to reason that any life created by the big bang was very simplistic. Life in it's absolute most basic form. No eyes, no brains, no legs, no anything except squirming gobs of nothing. So, somehow that stuff survived what had to be harsh weather conditions with nothing to feed on but each other, if they were advanced enough to know how to do that. And not only did it survive, it became things. Plants, nearly countless kinds. Some things grew legs, some wings, some fins, some teeth, some beaks, some snouts, etc. Some were big, some were small, some lived in water, some drowned in water, some flew, some hopped, some leaped, some ate plants, some ate other animals. But they, in great masses, lived long enough to evolve into things that survived. What are the odds? What ARE the odds?
And they kept evolving, through ice ages, extreme droughts, through all that nature had to throw at them. Oh yeah, and they all figured out how to evolve enough to reproduce before they all died out. What are the odds? Thanks man, by trying to see your side, I am even more convinced that a Greater Being is the only thing that does make sense. That big bang/evolution stuff is downright impossible to believe. Getting a tornado to spit out a Ferrari as it pummels a scrap yard is far more feasible than BBT/evolution. You don't dig very deep do you? Far more questions than answers there. Way, way, way too many longshots that had to fall in perfect order in the exact right timeline for even a tiny part of that to have happened. Undeniable proof?You just aren't asking enough questions.

If I were you(I thank God I'm not), I don't think I would be hoping for an afterlife. An afterlife means there is a God, which means there is a Satan, which means there is a heaven and hell. Son, if that's true, you are trying to be a star for the wrong team. You don't recognize God and Jesus, they won't recognize you. Your choice and you have clearly made it. God will forgive those who ask sincerely, but the invisible man in the sky and that Jesus joker(as you call him) won't know you in your current state. Wanna guess who will? Worm crap would seem to be your best bet right now. Evolution and science sure aren't going to save you. Good luck with your science buddies. See if you can help them get all of the planets in our solar system counted while you are waiting for them to discover the secrets of our existence. I know they are on the verge of both b/c you believe it.

 

[HogTime]

Wat is happening... : |

 

[SOPA]

On the Bible verses, I will explain what you did like this. I will use a real life 20th century person as an example.

If you were alive in the 50's, 60's, or 70's, you watched John Wayne movies. John Wayne was an American icon, a symbol of what America was about. He played heroes in the old west, from sheriffs, to ranchers, to gunfighters, to explorers, to Calvary officers, even western comedies. He played modern day cops, federal agents, and hands on patriarchs of powerful companies. In the military, he played everything from enlisted men to generals, fought in every branch of service, and participated in virtually every major battle in US history. And in almost every role he ever played, he pretty much just played John Wayne. And America loved him for it.

Now, nearly 40 years after his death, when much of the population only knows of him, but little about him, it would be really easy to carefully edit a few clips from his movies, throw a little commentary in for good measure, and lead folks to believe he was the villain in those movies and not the hero.

The Duke steps into a saloon and commences to shooting everybody in it. Look, John Wayne is a rampage killer. A real nutjob. Next scene, the Duke is hiding behind a rock and shooting Indians as they ride by. Look there, the Duke is a racist serial killer, shooting Native Americans for just going for an afternoon ride. The Duke walks up to a smiling gentleman who greets him in a friendly tone, and proceeds to beat the crap out of him. Bully, a mean man who brutalizes nice folks just to be mean. And the scene where he takes his wife(Maureen O'Hara) across his knee and spanks her. Wife beater, abuser, chauvinist, scumbag.

Show that to people that never saw a Duke flick and that's an easy sell. Of course, anybody that had seen all the movies would know it was a load of crap, and that those scenes alone were a total misrepresentation of the story being told. Sure, those scenes were in there, but portraying them as who and what JW was in those movies is misleading at best and really, downright dishonest.

You can do that with scriptures too. But it seems I don't have to tell you that. There are stories around all of those verses that clears up a lot of the mud you tried so hard to stir. Man, you did a two bit hatchet job on Jesus Christ. You are one classy guy. As far as your self proclaimed Bible knowledge, I could pick any ten regular Sunday School attendees at my blue collar little church, and they would smoke you like a rack of ribs on a closed book Bible test. And that includes alot of the kids.You have already proven that here many times. You really need to just let that lie go, you aren't doing anything to hide it.

Undeniable evidence huh? Is that better than the ample and the overwhelming evidence you have already claimed? Just to be fair, I will try to see what you see in a logical manner.

The big bang theory. The theory of evolution. First off, theory does not mean fact as you assume it does, it means at best, educated guess that can't be proven. At worst, in this day of political involvement in the science world, it means whatever keeps those grants coming in. I take all of that into account when I hear the term theory used in a scientific finding. You must not.

The big bang theory. Best I can tell it means our galaxy was formed billions of years ago by a gigantic random cosmic explosion. You will need to confer with your science comrads to get the exact timeline. You know, if they aren't too busy counting planets in our own solar system. Anyway, this cosmic explosion, gazillions of times more powerful than all of the explosive power in our whole world, including nukes, somehow threw out solar systems all over space. Somehow, this huge explosion created balance and order where many of these solar systems have survived for billions of years. Not only that, but some of those planets in those solar systems happened to fall in just the right orbits from their suns to sustain life. And even more amazing, those same planets just happened to have just the right mixture of gases to sustain life. regenerating water too.

Now this is where it gets wild, somehow this explosion created life that somehow survived w/o any means or instincts. It just did. Surely you don't think that random life just automatically knew how to survive from the beginning in what had to be harsh circumstances with no instincts or ability to reason? And an explosion that built things and created life? How soon before our scientists learn to do that? Nothing farfetched about that huh? I look forward to your overwhelming evidence of all of that.

And now to evolution. It stands to reason that any life created by the big bang was very simplistic. Life in it's absolute most basic form. No eyes, no brains, no legs, no anything except squirming gobs of nothing. So, somehow that stuff survived what had to be harsh weather conditions with nothing to feed on but each other, if they were advanced enough to know how to do that. And not only did it survive, it became things. Plants, nearly countless kinds. Some things grew legs, some wings, some fins, some teeth, some beaks, some snouts, etc. Some were big, some were small, some lived in water, some drowned in water, some flew, some hopped, some leaped, some ate plants, some ate other animals. But they, in great masses, lived long enough to evolve into things that survived. What are the odds? What ARE the odds?
And they kept evolving, through ice ages, extreme droughts, through all that nature had to throw at them. Oh yeah, and they all figured out how to evolve enough to reproduce before they all died out. What are the odds? Thanks man, by trying to see your side, I am even more convinced that a Greater Being is the only thing that does make sense. That big bang/evolution stuff is downright impossible to believe. Getting a tornado to spit out a Ferrari as it pummels a scrap yard is far more feasible than BBT/evolution. You don't dig very deep do you? Far more questions than answers there. Way, way, way too many longshots that had to fall in perfect order in the exact right timeline for even a tiny part of that to have happened. Undeniable proof?You just aren't asking enough questions.

If I were you(I thank God I'm not), I don't think I would be hoping for an afterlife. An afterlife means there is a God, which means there is a Satan, which means there is a heaven and hell. Son, if that's true, you are trying to be a star for the wrong team. You don't recognize God and Jesus, they won't recognize you. Your choice and you have clearly made it. God will forgive those who ask sincerely, but the invisible man in the sky and that Jesus joker(as you call him) won't know you in your current state. Wanna guess who will? Worm crap would seem to be your best bet right now. Evolution and science sure aren't going to save you. Good luck with your science buddies. See if you can help them get all of the planets in our solar system counted while you are waiting for them to discover the secrets of our existence. I know they are on the verge of both b/c you believe it.

Most are misguided on the meaning of theory. I would suggest you revisit the definition of theory. We do not know what caused the big bang,however, this does not mean a god did it.

Your last paragraph, once again, you suggest if there is an afterlife it most certainly is the one you believe in. If there is an afterlife, its most likely based off percentages that its not the one you think it is.

Ive read the bible 4 or 5 times, actually reading the old testament again this month. I read the Koran the past couple months and both have the same amount of bullshit in them. For your sake and mine, I request you start praying that neither one of these gods are in the afterlife.

 

[SOPA]

On the Bible verses, I will explain what you did like this. I will use a real life 20th century person as an example.

If you were alive in the 50's, 60's, or 70's, you watched John Wayne movies. John Wayne was an American icon, a symbol of what America was about. He played heroes in the old west, from sheriffs, to ranchers, to gunfighters, to explorers, to Calvary officers, even western comedies. He played modern day cops, federal agents, and hands on patriarchs of powerful companies. In the military, he played everything from enlisted men to generals, fought in every branch of service, and participated in virtually every major battle in US history. And in almost every role he ever played, he pretty much just played John Wayne. And America loved him for it.

Now, nearly 40 years after his death, when much of the population only knows of him, but little about him, it would be really easy to carefully edit a few clips from his movies, throw a little commentary in for good measure, and lead folks to believe he was the villain in those movies and not the hero.

The Duke steps into a saloon and commences to shooting everybody in it. Look, John Wayne is a rampage killer. A real nutjob. Next scene, the Duke is hiding behind a rock and shooting Indians as they ride by. Look there, the Duke is a racist serial killer, shooting Native Americans for just going for an afternoon ride. The Duke walks up to a smiling gentleman who greets him in a friendly tone, and proceeds to beat the crap out of him. Bully, a mean man who brutalizes nice folks just to be mean. And the scene where he takes his wife(Maureen O'Hara) across his knee and spanks her. Wife beater, abuser, chauvinist, scumbag.

Show that to people that never saw a Duke flick and that's an easy sell. Of course, anybody that had seen all the movies would know it was a load of crap, and that those scenes alone were a total misrepresentation of the story being told. Sure, those scenes were in there, but portraying them as who and what JW was in those movies is misleading at best and really, downright dishonest.

You can do that with scriptures too. But it seems I don't have to tell you that. There are stories around all of those verses that clears up a lot of the mud you tried so hard to stir. Man, you did a two bit hatchet job on Jesus Christ. You are one classy guy. As far as your self proclaimed Bible knowledge, I could pick any ten regular Sunday School attendees at my blue collar little church, and they would smoke you like a rack of ribs on a closed book Bible test. And that includes alot of the kids.You have already proven that here many times. You really need to just let that lie go, you aren't doing anything to hide it.

Undeniable evidence huh? Is that better than the ample and the overwhelming evidence you have already claimed? Just to be fair, I will try to see what you see in a logical manner.

The big bang theory. The theory of evolution. First off, theory does not mean fact as you assume it does, it means at best, educated guess that can't be proven. At worst, in this day of political involvement in the science world, it means whatever keeps those grants coming in. I take all of that into account when I hear the term theory used in a scientific finding. You must not.

The big bang theory. Best I can tell it means our galaxy was formed billions of years ago by a gigantic random cosmic explosion. You will need to confer with your science comrads to get the exact timeline. You know, if they aren't too busy counting planets in our own solar system. Anyway, this cosmic explosion, gazillions of times more powerful than all of the explosive power in our whole world, including nukes, somehow threw out solar systems all over space. Somehow, this huge explosion created balance and order where many of these solar systems have survived for billions of years. Not only that, but some of those planets in those solar systems happened to fall in just the right orbits from their suns to sustain life. And even more amazing, those same planets just happened to have just the right mixture of gases to sustain life. regenerating water too.

Now this is where it gets wild, somehow this explosion created life that somehow survived w/o any means or instincts. It just did. Surely you don't think that random life just automatically knew how to survive from the beginning in what had to be harsh circumstances with no instincts or ability to reason? And an explosion that built things and created life? How soon before our scientists learn to do that? Nothing farfetched about that huh? I look forward to your overwhelming evidence of all of that.

And now to evolution. It stands to reason that any life created by the big bang was very simplistic. Life in it's absolute most basic form. No eyes, no brains, no legs, no anything except squirming gobs of nothing. So, somehow that stuff survived what had to be harsh weather conditions with nothing to feed on but each other, if they were advanced enough to know how to do that. And not only did it survive, it became things. Plants, nearly countless kinds. Some things grew legs, some wings, some fins, some teeth, some beaks, some snouts, etc. Some were big, some were small, some lived in water, some drowned in water, some flew, some hopped, some leaped, some ate plants, some ate other animals. But they, in great masses, lived long enough to evolve into things that survived. What are the odds? What ARE the odds?
And they kept evolving, through ice ages, extreme droughts, through all that nature had to throw at them. Oh yeah, and they all figured out how to evolve enough to reproduce before they all died out. What are the odds? Thanks man, by trying to see your side, I am even more convinced that a Greater Being is the only thing that does make sense. That big bang/evolution stuff is downright impossible to believe. Getting a tornado to spit out a Ferrari as it pummels a scrap yard is far more feasible than BBT/evolution. You don't dig very deep do you? Far more questions than answers there. Way, way, way too many longshots that had to fall in perfect order in the exact right timeline for even a tiny part of that to have happened. Undeniable proof?You just aren't asking enough questions.

If I were you(I thank God I'm not), I don't think I would be hoping for an afterlife. An afterlife means there is a God, which means there is a Satan, which means there is a heaven and hell. Son, if that's true, you are trying to be a star for the wrong team. You don't recognize God and Jesus, they won't recognize you. Your choice and you have clearly made it. God will forgive those who ask sincerely, but the invisible man in the sky and that Jesus joker(as you call him) won't know you in your current state. Wanna guess who will? Worm crap would seem to be your best bet right now. Evolution and science sure aren't going to save you. Good luck with your science buddies. See if you can help them get all of the planets in our solar system counted while you are waiting for them to discover the secrets of our existence. I know they are on the verge of both b/c you believe it.

I think I found someone you must know

 

[treestandhog]

I am self defined bible beating Christian so let's get that out of the way.

Our country was founded on religious freedom and rights to free speech. We are a Christian nation, no doubt about it.

I don't feel threatened by any other religion. And, I have no issue with people attacking my religion. Actually, Jesus teaches that one should expect that and welcome that. It's not easy but it's a foundation of Christianity.

Finally, and this is my opinion only, but I scoff at people comparing the Bible to the Quran or any other book, teaching, or laws. If one reads the New Testament and the Gospels it is a guide to how to live. It's not rules - actually it tells us that rules are of and by man and are irrelevant to our faith and to God. Further it tells us that faith without acts is like a fruit tree that doesn't bear fruit.

So, bring it. I celebrate Christmas. I celebrate my faith in a way that tries to shine a light showing the Grace that Jesus has given me. And, I certainly know that it was not my acts that 'earned' that Grace. It is available to all. It is simple but not easy. By the way, I try really hard and I suck at it. But, I do try.

I see stuff like this and I don't like it but I do understand and expect it. Have you seen the outpouring of people mocking prayer for the people impacted in San Bernadino? Again, sad but I have come to expect it.

Faith with Acts will always win over words.

Rant over.

Great post....thank you.