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See last night's TV report on Colorado and Pot?

OT: another take on legalizing drugs

I posted this in another thread, but I feel very strongly about the issue of legalizing drugs so I'm starting a different thread to propose this as a way of dealing with the issue:

I'm all for legalization of marijuana & all other illegal drugs, but I am not at all for anyone using them--at least no more than most people use alcohol.

While I favor legalization, I think Colorado is going about it wrong. We don't want to encourage drug use. We want to reduce the damage that comes from drug use & the drug trade. Locking people up for doing no more than smoking weed is insane. However, one reason we have so many drugs like meth & crack is that the crackdowns on less dangerous drugs has made those drugs more expensive & harder to get than crack & meth. There is also a lot of collateral crime that comes about due to illegal drugs. Addicts rob stores & people to support their habit & cartels thrive because there's a demand for what they can sell at outrageous prices.

IMO, what we should do is open up state run or highly regulated dispensaries. I prefer state run dispensaries because if we allow private dealers to sell, we can't prohibit them from advertising & promoting the stuff. OTOH, if the state runs the operation there's no need to "promote" the drugs at all. We shouldn't use these as a profit center. Our goal should be to keep drug use at a minimum while still recognizing people want them. We should sell the drugs at a low enough price to adults only to undercut the profits of illegal drug cartels. We should create stiff criminal penalties for growers/manufacturers to sell to anyone except the state outlets. The state can set the price it will pay manufacturers & growers.

We can still make it illegal with stiff penalties to supply drugs to minors. We can still make it illegal to drive while on them.

I'm convinced if we do it right we can beat the drug cartels, undercut so much of the collateral crime that goes with illegal drugs, and like with cigarettes, do a pretty good job of educating the public about the dangers of drug use. There are lots of ways to fight drugs & still allow irresponsible people some individual freedom to destroy themselves. There is also no reason to make criminals out of people who like to smoke weed now & then

This post was edited on 3/12 11:45 AM by NEastArkie
 
Originally posted by Penthouse65:

Originally posted by RazorbackDundee:

Originally posted by Hogswell Hogs:

Lots. What, exactly, is your point? People should be free to make their own choices. You think another man should have the right to tell you what you can and can't put into your own body? You believe that you shouldn't have autonomy over your own flesh and bones?
I would gratefully support someones drug habit so they did not go out and rob/rape/murder people all because they need their next fix and don't work.

Of course I would make sure it was a hot shot and they didn't wake up the next morning.

My point is not what they are doing to their own bodies (I don't give a ratz arse if they kill themselves), it's what the fallout is after it.
How...in any way does this statement apply to Marijuana?

Sometimes I get embarrassed for those that are so misinformed. Then, I get depressed that those individuals take that information and use it to take God given rights away from me. Who is anyone to say that I cannot grow a plant!

Its troubling that a group of people can sit around a table drinking beer and say that MJ should be illegal. They are so blinded by their own hypocrisy that is is utterly disturbing
If you are replying to me then you should go back and read his earlier posts ITT . He clearly states ALL DRUGS , including heroin/cocaine/meth etc etc etc etc . I am sorry you got embarrassed and above all else I am the furtherest thing from a hypocrite.

TY for your opinion though.
 
Re: CNN 9 Central Tonight

Originally posted by Treeclimber2:
Swinal tap, even though im a recovering addict, I kept my gramma supplied with weed for about a month while she was fighting cancer. It definitely helped with the pain, but more importantly it made her develop an appetite. As u probably know, its a HUGE deal for a chemotherapy patient to even hold food down much less crave food. Marijuana helped make the last month of my grandmothers life a little more bearable... and it was quite funny to see my lil ol gramma toking on a joint as well. If I had it to do all over again, she would've been smoking the whole time she was on chemotherapy. Her oncologist was the one that encouraged me to get her a few bags
Good post, Tree. Good for you for doing that for her. I wish now that I had done it as well.
 
Re: OT: another take on legalizing drugs

Not sure if it is the case everywhere but in NM all the producers are non profits. This allows for jobs and the innovation of private enterprise without greed factoring in. One thing seems right the way to take the Cartels out of the equation is to remove the profits.
 
Re: CNN 9 Central Tonight


Phillip you need to watch the show. It will be on CNN again soon if not today.

Top neurosurgeon Sanjay Gupta,google him for his creds, did an hour long show based upon on family in New Jersey and there experience with MJ and a daughter that was having up to 75 seiz. a day. Long story short they temp moved to CO and got the meds. Within hours they could tell the difference. Had to move back to NJ and daughter relapsed. It was hard to watch but everyone shoutd see it. End up having to move back to CO full time because they couldn't get what they needed in NJ. Colorado is so advanced on the medical side of things.

They had story after story of families from all over that had to move out there to get the meds that work for their kids. Sad story really. Couldn't leave the state of CO because it was illegal to cross state lines with drug. Focused on Feds having to reclassify pot so it can be studied even further.


I went to high school with a guy that had sceizres. His were bad but not daily. The only thing that helped him was good pot. When he was on his prescribed meds he was a zombie. When he smoked he was functionable and I think grad. from college.


I know the legalities of it in Arkansas but I know this. If it was my girl that needed pot to go from having 75 to 10 seizures a day, I wouldn't think twice about it.
 
Re: CNN 9 Central Tonight


Originally posted by floridahog:
Israel was one of the first countries to use medical marijuana treatments. They are also allowing studies to be done for the different usages. The old man in Israel who had the shakes so bad he couldn't hold anything. After 2 hits from a pipe his hands quit shaking. He also was a holocaust survivor and as he got older his nightmares about his experience. After he started smoking it his nightmare went away, he said its a blessing from God.
Ever been to a pub early in the day and seen the old guy walk and and sit at the end of the bar. He will near spill half of his first glass because he is shaking so bad and by the end of his second he is as steady as a rock lol.
 
Re: CNN 9 Central Tonight

Originally posted by RazorbackDundee:

Originally posted by floridahog:
Israel was one of the first countries to use medical marijuana treatments. They are also allowing studies to be done for the different usages. The old man in Israel who had the shakes so bad he couldn't hold anything. After 2 hits from a pipe his hands quit shaking. He also was a holocaust survivor and as he got older his nightmares about his experience. After he started smoking it his nightmare went away, he said its a blessing from God.
Ever been to a pub early in the day and seen the old guy walk and and sit at the end of the bar. He will near spill half of his first glass because he is shaking so bad and by the end of his second he is as steady as a rock lol.
Did you just compare a man with self induced alcoholism with another that is a victim of a non self-induced disease....and then laugh about it? Is your point that the old man in the show has the shakes because he is addicted to MJ, just as the bar lizard is addicted to alcohol....I hope i misunderstood that. If not, you are a fool

Please tell me your poor wording was the cause for easy confusion....please
 
Re: OT: another take on legalizing drugs


Legalization of all drugs would be a disaster. Unintended consequences would abound.
 
Re: CNN 9 Central Tonight

"a five-year-old whose life was saved by pot and even an octogenarian Holocaust survivor in Israel who deals with tremors by smoking government-subsidized weed. Marijuana, Gupta shows viewers, can even fight cancer. "

Taken from the show Dundee. Educate yourself
 
Re: CNN 9 Central Tonight


Originally posted by Penthouse65:
"a five-year-old whose life was saved by pot and even an octogenarian Holocaust survivor in Israel who deals with tremors by smoking government-subsidized weed. Marijuana, Gupta shows viewers, can even fight cancer. "

Taken from the show Dundee. Educate yourself
Huh?. Did you even look at my answer to your moronic reply in the other drug thread?. Go have a look and educate yourself you wanker.
 
Re: OT: another take on legalizing drugs


IMO Colorado is doing it perfect to the tee. Treat it just like alcohol and that is what they are doing. If you want to grow your own, do it just keep it for you. If you would rather buy it then go buy it and take it home. Just like alcohol. Don't cause trouble and there will be no trouble.
The only problem is they are taxing way to much. The black market will not be reduces as it should with it being taxed as high as it is.
 
Re: CNN 9 Central Tonight

Huh what? what are you huhing....

Either respond to the topic at hand in this thread or leave this thread. So far, what i have gotten here is that alcoholism is funny to you. Not only that, by you attribute the holocaust survivors tremors to an addiction to MJ. When I proved that you were incorrect, you deflected. Well played.
 
Re: OT: another take on legalizing drugs


I believe NEastArkie's approach has merit. Right now we support unlawful and unsavory drug-selling characters and/or thugs in nearly every state in the union with our purchases...and they kill people with "bad stuff", get into other unlawful endeavors and pay no taxes on their profits.

We currently kiddin' ourselves?
 
Re: CNN 9 Central Tonight


roll.r191677.gif
good stuff right there.

You obviously have a hard on for me and I don't swing that way so I will move on and I suggest you do the same. Maybe a name change also as Penthouse has women in it doesn't it?.
 
Re: CNN 9 Central Tonight

Beautiful deflection. Beautiful.

Please, move along. I am sure there is another thread out there where you can tell people what else they can and cannot do.
 
Re: OT: another take on legalizing drugs

I'm a middle of the road person when it comes to politics. So, I'm not pro nor anti government. In this particular instance, I say let it ride on a state by state basis. There should be a certain level of federal regulation. However, allow a state to choose whether they want to run it themselves or let private industry....you can still regulate the private industry as to advertising and the state can use some of the tax revenue to advertise the dangers. I think this way, we can observe the results of different ways to handle it and move forward from there.
 
Re: OT: another take on legalizing drugs


Originally posted by Hogalong:

Legalization of all drugs would be a disaster. Unintended consequences would abound.
There is always a risk of unintended consequences, but this is not a totally new ballgame. Most drugs were legal in this country until sometime in about the 1930's. We didn't have a huge drug problem then. On top of that drugs have been used throughout the world & throughout history. So we have an idea about what happens when they're legal. On top of that, there are hundreds of legal drugs now. They're just distributed by highly regulated outlets--pharmacies. Once Oxycontin & hydrocodone are in someone's medicine cabinet they're as likely to be used by children as legalized marijuana would be. (And let's not act like MJ isn't everywhere & available to anyone who wants it.)

We also know what happens with prohibition of drugs and the unintended consequences that came about when we've tried. We prohibited alcohol in the 1920's & that really increased organized crime. We outlawed drugs on a federal level in the 1970's and we've experienced much of the same thing--without really stopping the use of drugs. We've made it hard to get some drugs & that's led to worse, easier to make, cheaper, more dangerous drugs.

I won't say it's a risk free tactic, but given what we know it's pretty clear we're likely to have more success legalizing & regulating drugs than what we're doing now.
 
Re: OT: another take on legalizing drugs

Good post NEArkie, one thing though. Why couldn't we prohibit private sellers from advertising? We already prohibit most if not all tobacco ads.
Posted from Rivals Mobile
 
Re: CNN 9 Central Tonight

TYVM. You jump on someone that replies to another person (not you) in both threads with accusations that couldn't be further from the truth and you sit there claiming that I am telling people what they can and cannot do?.

Your a classic lol.
 
Re: OT: another take on legalizing drugs


Originally posted by smallmouthhog:

IMO Colorado is doing it perfect to the tee. Treat it just like alcohol and that is what they are doing. If you want to grow your own, do it just keep it for you. If you would rather buy it then go buy it and take it home. Just like alcohol. Don't cause trouble and there will be no trouble.
The only problem is they are taxing way to much. The black market will not be reduces as it should with it being taxed as high as it is.
I don't think we've seen the problems yet with Colorado's method. I fear we're going to have marketing & promotions for MJ, much like we used to have for cigarettes & still have for beer. The last thing in the world I want is some "Joe Camel" character trying to make MJ cool so high school kids will want it. Like alcohol & tobacco, some are still going to use it, but I don't want to encourage it.

I agree the taxes need to be low enough that it takes away the customer base & profit from black marketers.
 
Re: CNN 9 Central Tonight


Originally posted by RazorbackDundee:

Originally posted by floridahog:
Israel was one of the first countries to use medical marijuana treatments. They are also allowing studies to be done for the different usages. The old man in Israel who had the shakes so bad he couldn't hold anything. After 2 hits from a pipe his hands quit shaking. He also was a holocaust survivor and as he got older his nightmares about his experience. After he started smoking it his nightmare went away, he said its a blessing from God.
Ever been to a pub early in the day and seen the old guy walk and and sit at the end of the bar. He will near spill half of his first glass because he is shaking so bad and by the end of his second he is as steady as a rock lol.
These are threads where multiple people participate. if you want to speak with one person, i suggest you PM them

Please explain your comment above to the group, since this is a group discussion
 
Re: OT: another take on legalizing drugs


Originally posted by John Rogers:
Good post NEArkie, one thing though. Why couldn't we prohibit private sellers from advertising? We already prohibit most if not all tobacco ads.
Posted from Rivals Mobile
I am pro legalization, but I also like this idea.

Devils advocate though....If MJ is proven and widely accepted to be less harmful than alcohol, why allow alcohol companies to advertise and not MJ companies?

For the record, I would prefer to see no MJ advertisements. Just seems counter-productive to me, not because i think it is harmful.
 
Re: OT: another take on legalizing drugs


There will be issues or problems that occur in Co but nothing that cant be worked out. IF advertising is the biggest issue that arises all will be good. Have to take baby steps and the end result will be whatever the market bears. Just get it above ground .
 
Re: OT: another take on legalizing drugs

I think this is a great take, but I also wanted to pop in and mention how hilarious those mj commercials would be. Beer ads show guys at parties or bars. Would mj commercials show guys watering their plastic flowers, or watching an hour of bravo without noticing, or eating 3 bags of chips? The possibilities are endless. I've just talked myself into being pro mj commercials, but only for my own personal satisfaction.
 
Re: OT: another take on legalizing drugs


Originally posted by John Rogers:
Good post NEArkie, one thing though. Why couldn't we prohibit private sellers from advertising? We already prohibit most if not all tobacco ads.
Posted from Rivals Mobile
The first amendment won't allow us to prohibit them from doing so. The only reason we're able to prohibit tobacco ads is because tobacco companies entered into a court settlement wherein they agreed to end their ads in exchange for getting off easier on damages & other sanctions that might've come their way. The tobacco litigation uncovered a whole lot of unsavory practices by tobacco companies. It was simply a trade-off for them. They could've been put out of business altogether so agreeing not to advertise wasn't such a hard decision.
 
Re: OT: another take on legalizing drugs

Wow, learned something new. I didn't know the government could use the threat of suit or prosecution to force businesses to give up their freedoms enjoyed by law. Seems strange.

I'm not saying it wasn't fair or justified it just sounds strange that anyone could lose a basic freedom.
Posted from Rivals Mobile
 
Re: OT: another take on legalizing drugs

Very interesting. The govt leverage might have originated with the false statements that the tobacco company heads made under oath.

"tobacco is not addictive" "No link to smoking cigarettes and lung disease" etc........ They were also advertising that info to the general public. In essence, false advertising...which is illegal.
 
Re: OT: another take on legalizing drugs


Originally posted by Penthouse65:

Originally posted by John Rogers:
Good post NEArkie, one thing though. Why couldn't we prohibit private sellers from advertising? We already prohibit most if not all tobacco ads.
Posted from Rivals Mobile
I am pro legalization, but I also like this idea.

Devils advocate though....If MJ is proven and widely accepted to be less harmful than alcohol, why allow alcohol companies to advertise and not MJ companies?

For the record, I would prefer to see no MJ advertisements. Just seems counter-productive to me, not because i think it is harmful.
I mentioned in an earlier post why we don't have tobacco ads. If not for tobacco company agreements as part of a settlement the First Amendment guarantees their right to advertise. Alcohol is a different kind of animal. Arguably we can't prohibit liquor companies from advertising, either. In fact, they do advertise. However, the Constitutional Amendment that repealed Prohibition had language that the courts have interpreted to give states broader power to regulate alcohol sales than it does virtually any other product. That's why liquor stores can be forced to close on Sunday & dry counties can still exist. Of course regulating sales isn't the same as regulating speech about sales. I don't know if the 21st Amendment trumps the first amendment right to free speech when it comes to liquor advertising. I doubt it, but it might.

One practical effect you see of the effects of the 21st Amendment is the way many towns & cities regulate strip clubs & such. If alcohol is sold in them they use that as a way to regulate hours, etc. those places can be open. They'd be less able to if no alcohol was sold.

This post was edited on 3/12 2:18 PM by NEastArkie
 
Re: OT: another take on legalizing drugs


Originally posted by John Rogers:
Wow, learned something new. I didn't know the government could use the threat of suit or prosecution to force businesses to give up their freedoms enjoyed by law. Seems strange.

I'm not saying it wasn't fair or justified it just sounds strange that anyone could lose a basic freedom.
Posted from Rivals Mobile
Actually it isn't so strange if you think about it. Courts enforce contracts every day. They've done it for centuries. A settlement of a lawsuit is a contract. We enjoy "freedom to contract." In fact, its one of the basic rights we need to have a solid economic structure. The paradox is that every contract means both parties give up something. Quite often what they give up is the freedom to do something. For example: Party A pays B the exclusive right to show a movie that B made. B agrees in exchange for the sale he won't show the movie himself. If B breaches that contract or attempts to, A can collect damages or perhaps use a court to stop B from showing the movie. There are thousands of examples of someone giving up a "freedom" of some sort to get a contractual benefit of another sort.

The right to advertise the tobacco companies forfeited was unusual. In fact, I don't know of another example of anything quite so broad, but those companies were guilty of some outrageous misconduct. (I don't think it was a criminal prosecution, either, although some of those people should've been prosecuted. I think most of the tobacco litigation was civil litigation even though several states and perhaps the federal gov't participated.)
 
Re: CNN 9 Central Tonight


Originally posted by Penthouse65:

Originally posted by RazorbackDundee:

Originally posted by floridahog:
Israel was one of the first countries to use medical marijuana treatments. They are also allowing studies to be done for the different usages. The old man in Israel who had the shakes so bad he couldn't hold anything. After 2 hits from a pipe his hands quit shaking. He also was a holocaust survivor and as he got older his nightmares about his experience. After he started smoking it his nightmare went away, he said its a blessing from God.
Ever been to a pub early in the day and seen the old guy walk and and sit at the end of the bar. He will near spill half of his first glass because he is shaking so bad and by the end of his second he is as steady as a rock lol.
These are threads where multiple people participate. if you want to speak with one person, i suggest you PM them

Please explain your comment above to the group, since this is a group discussion
Been in a few 12 step programs or some other shrink thing?lol.

I also didn't know they had private messaging on this site? I will have to look into that.

Florida knows me and knows I would not put sh!t on someone that is sick and also would know it was only a joke.

Last but not least , I was replying to an individual in both posts so it was kinda directed at them (hence me quoting then) and not your sorry a$$.

Look forward to a lot of reply to your posts to others mr ron .
 
Re: OT: another take on legalizing drugs

Same with guns and murder... let's just legalize it all and have a free for all...
uzi.r191677.gif
 
Re: OT: another take on legalizing drugs

Ironically our government has a patent on medical marijuana and here is the conclusion by OUR government.


"Cannabinoids have been found to have antioxidant properties, unrelated to NMDA receptor antagonism. This new found property makes cannabinoids useful in the treatment and prophylaxis of wide variety of oxidation associated diseases, such as ischemic, age-related, inflammatory and autoimmune diseases.The cannabinoids are found to have particular application as neuroprotectants, for example in limiting neurological damage following ischemic insults, such as stroke and trauma, or in the treatment of neurodegenerative diseases, such as Alzheimer's disease, Parkinson's disease and HIV dementia."
 
Re: CNN 9 Central Tonight

I simply asked you to explain your post. If you choose to not do that, I suppose that is fine. Name calling and subject changes will not defend your statements, though.

Again, if you choose to post in a thread, expect others to partake in the conversation. Hope you have a great day

smokin.r191677.gif
 
Re: OT: another take on legalizing drugs


Originally posted by floridahog:
Ironically our government has a patent on medical marijuana and here is the conclusion by OUR government.


"Cannabinoids have been found to have antioxidant properties, unrelated to NMDA receptor antagonism. This new found property makes cannabinoids useful in the treatment and prophylaxis of wide variety of oxidation associated diseases, such as ischemic, age-related, inflammatory and autoimmune diseases.The cannabinoids are found to have particular application as neuroprotectants, for example in limiting neurological damage following ischemic insults, such as stroke and trauma, or in the treatment of neurodegenerative diseases, such as Alzheimer's disease, Parkinson's disease and HIV dementia."
Florida, did that information come from the research being conducted at Ole Miss? I guess it would have to considering that is the only location that have allowed to do any research at all...
 
Re: OT: another take on legalizing drugs

Originally posted by Penthouse65:


Originally posted by floridahog:
Ironically our government has a patent on medical marijuana and here is the conclusion by OUR government.


"Cannabinoids have been found to have antioxidant properties, unrelated to NMDA receptor antagonism. This new found property makes cannabinoids useful in the treatment and prophylaxis of wide variety of oxidation associated diseases, such as ischemic, age-related, inflammatory and autoimmune diseases.The cannabinoids are found to have particular application as neuroprotectants, for example in limiting neurological damage following ischemic insults, such as stroke and trauma, or in the treatment of neurodegenerative diseases, such as Alzheimer's disease, Parkinson's disease and HIV dementia."
Florida, did that information come from the research being conducted at Ole Miss? I guess it would have to considering that is the only location that have allowed to do any research at all...
Not sure Guptay mentioned it last night.
 
Re: OT: another take on legalizing drugs


Originally posted by hogminer:
I'm a middle of the road person when it comes to politics. So, I'm not pro nor anti government. In this particular instance, I say let it ride on a state by state basis. There should be a certain level of federal regulation. However, allow a state to choose whether they want to run it themselves or let private industry....you can still regulate the private industry as to advertising and the state can use some of the tax revenue to advertise the dangers. I think this way, we can observe the results of different ways to handle it and move forward from there.
I don't think the first amendment will allow them to regulate them advertising MJ. There can be regulations against false claims in advertising commercial products, but there's no way we can prohibit someone from simply promoting and advertising a perfectly legal product. That's why I think it's better to control distribution through non-profit means. I don't think we'll be well served as a society if we simply legalize what drug cartels are doing. We don't want people doing drugs for recreational use so we need to do what we can to reduce it. Just because I don't want druggies put in jail doesn't mean I don't think they're a social problem.

I agree it's a good idea for different states to try different methods of legalization--at least until such time, if any, different state laws prove unworkable. I don't foresee that, though. That's how we regulate alcohol & it seems to work pretty well.
 
Re: CNN 9 Central Tonight


Originally posted by Penthouse65:
I simply asked you to explain your post. If you choose to not do that, I suppose that is fine. Name calling and subject changes will not defend your statements, though.

Again, if you choose to post in a thread, expect others to partake in the conversation. Hope you have a great day

smokin.r191677.gif
^^^^^^^^^^proof positive^^^^^^^^^^^^ that MJ or something harder messes up your head.

I answered by saying it was a joke "twice" and you keep asking, why is that?.

I asked you a VERY SIMPLE question on private messaging that you clearly stated is on this site, where is it?. I have looked and not found it yet.

uuuummm let me guess???? your next response will be asking me to explain a post?. I rarely resort to "name calling" but damn , when the shoe fits.

I have never said a word about MJ being legal , just didn't agree with "all drugs". I have rethought and hope like hell they do make all drugs legal and maybe the numbers of morons will reduce before they reach 20 y/o.
 
Re: CNN 9 Central Tonight

hmmm please forgive my mistake of thinking a PM was available here. Just so you are aware. Your joke about alcoholism and other very serious and deadly diseases was not funny.

As for a response to your whole attitude and last post. Wow... I'm done here. Again, have a great day
 
Re: CNN 9 Central Tonight

Dundee this is a topic that hits home with a lot of people who have had loved ones suffer through cancer. Doubt you were trying to make a joke out of it, but you also got to expect some to take offense to your alcohol comparison.
 
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